Disappointed

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nybiker @ Nov 6 2007, 03:48 PM) [snapback]535687[/snapback]</div>

That's the way I look at it. Your mileage may not be great, but your gallons/month are much better than average, and that's what determines your total cost and your carbon footprint.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcorazon @ Nov 5 2007, 10:28 AM) [snapback]534919[/snapback]</div>

I live in the Chicago region, and my first tank was about 40 mpg, and I've hit upper 30's on a tank as well. So I came here and complained, and then the patient people pointed me to the resources available, like the sticky threads in the fuel economy forum (this forum). I pumped my tires up to 39/37 psi (which is easy, although I have given detailed instructions on another thread which seemed to be appreciated). The commute I couldn't do much about. I worked on my driving style, avoiding using the battery as much as possible.

The cold really takes a hit when you drive short distances. Eventually I blocked my grill using $3 of pipe insulation from the local hardware store (ask for the kind for copper or steel pipes, if they ask, not PVC, smallest diameter available should be fine). Read more at this thread: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=27547

FireEngineer will definitely install the block heater, I missed the group install a month ago, I want to do this too, but need to order the EBH. Check out http://www.chicagopriusgroup.com/ or send a PM to TonyPSchaefer.

Eventually you will see a small improvement as the engine becomes broken in, they say after about 5K miles and 15K miles. But for now, there's small changes you can make to improve your fuel economy, but you won't ever get the EPA average of 55mpg on your commute. After 18 months, I've finally gotten up to 50mpg lifetime average, and I feel pretty good about that. My commute now is only 8 minutes, so I bike when I can (until daylight standard time hit), but by mixing some longer trips in and being careful, I'm still getting above 50mpg (with a blocked grill and 39/37 PSI tires). In the first winter I certainly wouldn't have been able to do that even with my longer commute at the time.

Real world results indicate that the average Prius owner gets about 47-48mpg. Low 40's is not unusual for your situation. You should get better (around 50mpg) on the interstate if you keep it below 70mph. Headwinds and crosswinds make a difference.

In short, the Prius allows you to get great gas mileage, but it's very sensitive to driving conditions, so there can be quite a variance from one person to another or one commute to another.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcorazon @ Nov 6 2007, 12:30 PM) [snapback]535564[/snapback]</div>

There have been many discussions here at PriusChat about the engine block heater (EBH). As I best recall those who have equipment to determine the temperature of the engine coolant have found that having the EBH on for about three hours seems to be optimal. Many have purchased a timer that they plug the EBH into in their garage. It turns on about three hours before they typically begin their commute, and then they unplug the EBH just before they leave.

I don't remember the exact numbers, and it really depends on what electricity costs where you live, but those who have done the calculations have found that they save more money in gasoline than they spend on electricity when they use the EBH. Of course we're talking about pennies or nickles a day difference, but every coin counts, right?

When you stuff/unstuff the grill depends a bit on your particular driving style, a bit on how much your temps fluctuate during they day, and a bit on how concerned you are about triggering an alert on your dash that some component is getting close to overheating.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcorazon @ Nov 6 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]535621[/snapback]</div>

I'm not positive, but I believe FireEngineer keeps his top grill blocked 100% of the time. Some of the guys with equipment for monitoring inverter and collant temps have indicated that it is safe to block the bottom grill so long as the ambient outdoor temperature is below 60 deg.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Danny Hamilton @ Nov 6 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]535760[/snapback]</div>

I'd be more cautious than that. Read at least the first couple pages of the thread "First morning with a blocked grill" that I pointed to previously. I covered half the top and lower grill about two weeks ago when it looked like there were no more upper 60's and 70's coming, and now that it's 50's or lower I'm filling in more of the grill. The top grill is filled, bottom still at half, but that's because I need to run to the store and get another length of pipe insulation.

There's no harm in waiting until the 40's to start blocking the grill (which is now). We all know it's going to get much colder here in the months ahead, a couple mpg hit now might be worth the peace of mind, unless you have CanView or Scangauge. And remember to take them out in the spring.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcorazon @ Nov 5 2007, 12:28 PM) [snapback]534919[/snapback]</div>

First of all, what is your tire pressure? Pump them up to 42F/40R as a baseline for good mileage.
Second, do you understand and employ the important driving techniques referred to around here as gliding and stealth? Those methods of operating the Prius are fundemental to great gas mileage, and without them your results will never be stellar. They are how you exploit the unique abilities of the Prius.
If traffic flow conditions allow you to maintain speeds of 45MPH or less, that is perfect for liftting you foot off the accelerator pedal, once up to speed, and reapplying it just slightly enough to get no arrows (glinding) or yellow arrows (stealth) from the battery only . Hold that as long as possible. Anytime you are traveling downhill , you should lift that foot and employ gliding or stealth, or if steep enough downhill, regen coasting. Everytime, no exception.
These techniques work at higher speeds too, but it's called warp-stealth.

Some folks think it's too much trouble to drive like that, or that it all takes too much concentration. Well, with a little practice it becomes second nature to lift that foot and reapply. And it's no more complicated or distracting than learning to drive a straight-shift. The interrelationship between gas/clutch and gears is far more complicted that a little stealth and glide technique.

Interstate driving should be done at 60-65MPH with cruise control. Unless it's rush hour, where you would employ gliding and stealth to jack your MPG through the roof.

As for all the gas tank non-sense, you're not filling your gas consistently, nor all the way. I go around 225 miles on the first pip, and then next 400 miles are consistent amoung the remaining pips. you should always be able to know how many gallons your tank will take at fill up by dividing miles driven (since last fillup) by computed MPG (if you reset at last fillup). I consistently get 600-650 miles per tank and consistently fill up with 10-11 gallons at those intervals. And if I drive only 420 miles and fill up I know I will pump around 7 gallon if my average was 60 MPG......etc/

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(9G-man @ Nov 7 2007, 10:47 PM) [snapback]536540[/snapback]</div>

That might be too high for some people. There is some dissent on what's appropriate (does it affect handling, especially on corners/braking?). I would suggest a new Prius owner to pump it up to a mid-range value like 38/36 or 39/37, try that for awhile, and increase if desired. (Remember the OEM tires are rated for 44 psi, some people have gone above that apparently without problems including a moderator here, but I wouldn't recommend it.)

Not stellar I agree, but a gentle driver on a decent commute should expect mileage better than elcorazon's without needing to know special techniques. The problem in this case is the short commute and the falling temperatures. And to some extant, a car that hasn't been broken in yet and tires that might be soft.

That's great for you, but obviously not everybody gets close to 60 mpg. I'm guessing your commute is at least 15 miles each way. Also, enough people have had problems with one pip going faster than expected (particularly the last one) so trying to go thru 11 gallons on a tank is pushing your luck just a bit. The reason the first pip disappeared quickly this time was because the mpg is dropping, he was just offering that as support to that fact.

One of the main reasons for the location field in people's profiles is so we know what climate they have. Elcorazon is in the Chicago area, which recently cooled off significantly. In the hotter climates like Georgia, this is the probably the peak time for good gas mileage since the A/C can be turned off. We've had a couple frosts and temperatures have been in the 40's and 50's the last couple weeks. On a short commute, that really hurts the gas mileage. I also live in the Chicago area and have a short commute. I bought my Prius in February last year and was also disappointed on the first tank (40mpg), and to some extant the next 3-4 tanks, but by summer things were really improving. If you look at TonyPSchaefer's posts, he has a link where you can find his chart of mileage vs. temperature, and you can see how much it affects it. Lately he's been pulling his mileage above his historical values because he's been working on the P&G, over-pressurized his tires, blocks the grill in cool weather, added an EBH, EV button, not using climate control, etc. He also has a longer commute. But even so, weather still affects the mileage.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Nov 8 2007, 10:53 AM) [snapback]536709[/snapback]</div>

Keep in mind, the burst pressure for tires is above 190psi. So don't worry about your tires exploding if you go 1psi over the "max".

 

nerfer pretty much said what I wanted too and probably more clearn.

I also think you should look at Tony's website and look at how his milage has fluctuated over the years and during the seasons. I recelty had a look at the site and it gave me hope that I could someday get 50mpg consistantly and I've made some changes to the car and my driving and I'm now seeing 50mpg with easy despite the 40-50deg temps.

The point is, keep plugging away and you'll likely end up getting better and if you don't then you don't. It's not going to effect your wallet in any dramatic way., maybe $100 annually.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcorazon @ Nov 12 2007, 11:52 PM) [snapback]538700[/snapback]</div>

It probably was 39.5. You did not burn 9.23 gallons while driving those 325 miles; you *will* burn them while you drive the next 400 or 450 miles. The tank capacity is not constant, therefore the size of fills will vary.

 

Don't be disappointed!

the short commute is very bad for your mileage.
I filled up on Friday and drove 35 miles each way - mileage read about 54 MPG. Since then I have driven only short commutes to work and I am down to 48 MPG.

Tire pressure must be your mantra!

Also use the grill blocking- it really does help in the colder weather.

No matter what, you are still doing better than any other car around!!!!

 

Lots of good suggestions here. IMHO the one thing that is hurting your mileage worse than the others is the short trips. if you had a scan gauge, or CANview, you would see that in a 4-5 minute trip your car is not even warmed up yet, hence poor mileage. After 5 minutes, your engine temp is probably around 145-150 degrees, rather than the 184 which is my normal "up to temp" operating temperature.

Thats why you hear people on here saying that short trips hurt your mileage. That combined with the winter temps now coming, your mileage will drop. Cold temps hurt batteries.

My suggestion is get an EBH. That will get your temps up higher to start with and will improve your mileage, especially on short trips. they only cost about $49 dollars and pennys per day to plug in.

Good luck...

 

Ok, I'm kind of in the same boat as elcorazon. I'm totally green to the Prius (can I use that pun?). I've never had a hybrid, but I'm really excited to be driving my new Prius. I live in the mountains in Western North Carolina. It's snowing tonight and going down to 23. Basically, everything will be frozen tomorrow morning! Anyhow I don't have a garage, my poor little Prius has to sleep out in the cold! I do, however, have access to a power outlet nearby.

I've read a few different posts and comments about the EBH, but I don't know the first thing about it. Do Toyota dealerships usually carry these? Would my dealership be able to install this for me? Also, I've read something about a group buy for EBH, but I don't know what that means or when it is. I also read something about putting the EBH on a timer. Basically, I'd love to know the best place to pick one of these up and have it installed. I'd also like an opinion on the timer.

My commute to work is 63 miles one way and most of it is on the interstate. When I'm not on the interstate, I'm driving in the rural mountain areas. So far, I'm thrilled with the gas mileage I've been getting, but I want to do all that I can to help my car to be as efficient as possible.

Oh yeah, one more thing....can somebody give a link or tell me exactly what I'd need to buy at Lowes for stuffing the grill? I know that if I don't know what I'm looking for and I walk into Lowes and try to explain it to somebody, they're going to look at me like a freak!

If somebody could help a n00b out, I'd appreciate it! Thanks!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Irunnoft @ Nov 15 2007, 10:14 PM) [snapback]540405[/snapback]</div>

Congrats on the new Prius! I still look forward to the commute in my Prius... who would've thought that was possible. If you park outside you definitely need an EBH. Dealers might have them, or they might be backordered now. They can be purchased here from the PriusChat shop when available. The dealer can install it for a price, or maybe FireEngineer Wayne will be taking a trip down your way to do free installs. Any lamp timer will do but if its outside you will need a weatherproof one. Have it turn on 3 hours before you leave. You stuff the grill with black closed-cell pipe insulation... I think they recommend the stuff for smaller diameter pipe, maybe the 1/2 inch copper pipe. Slice it down one side and stick it in the grill, there are postings here with instructions and pictures, do a search. It gets below freezing here at night, but often warms into the 50-60 range, so I probably won't do the stuffing (except this Thursday in a dead bird).

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(elcorazon @ Nov 5 2007, 10:42 AM) [snapback]534978[/snapback]</div>

I have yet to get better than 35mpg on my first seqment of my trips. I usually have 2 or 3 segments for my trips to and from work. The first segement ALWAYS sucks compared to the rest. My 2nd and 3rd segments are never below 50mpg. The Prius is just not as efficient during the warmup segment as it is with the rest. You CANNOT drive this car like a regular car and expect good mileage. Read the beginners thread. I accelerate up hills and glide down hills. I also installed an EV mode switch whiched helped my mileage. I can ALWAYS get better mileage without cruise but others swear that cruise is better for them. It's a trial and error learning method for sure.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(9G-man @ Nov 7 2007, 10:47 PM) [snapback]536540[/snapback]</div>

Hey 9G, do these techniques work in the mountains? I'm about 3 hours north of you in Cherokee, NC. I don't really have any flat land I travel through at all. It's all varying degrees of climbing and descending. So what techniques have mountain-driving Prius owners come up with? Also what's regen coasting? Is that when I'm just taking my foot completely off the gas pedal and letting the battery charge back up?

I just blocked my grill tonight and hope to see some improvement on my gas mileage. I did worse on this tank of gas than my first. I got close to 540 miles on my first tank and averaged close to 54 mpg on that tank. This tank I only got 513 miles and about the same average. A couple of things may have contributed to that. All day on Friday during my over 120 mile commute to and from work, my tire pressure light was on. I didn't have time (or a gauge) to mess with it. The temps also hit the coldest we've had yet this season (down in the low 20's). Anyhow, today, I checked the air pressure and it was around 30 for the front and 25 for the rear. I pumped the fronts to 42 and the rears to 40 and then I blocked the grill with insulation.

Anyhow, just looking for some good gas mileage milking Prius driving tips for the mountains since I almost never encounter truly flat land!

Thanks!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abq sfr @ Nov 16 2007, 05:40 PM) [snapback]540721[/snapback]</div>

Thanks! Yeah, driving 62 miles one way to work isn't so bad now. Granted, I've only had the car for a little over a week now, but I can tell that it will save me money at the pump. I'm actually enjoying learning how to drive this car. Thanks to helpful people on this site, I've got the insulation in my grill (I used the 1" for the top grill and the 3/4" for the lower). I think I spent about $5.00 buying two lengths of each at Lowe's. I may go back in and notch or cut the lower segments into smaller strips because, after an interstate drive to Asheville tonight, I noticed that it looked like a few of the lower grill pieces were pushing out at the ends. Anyhow, the true test for me will be the upcoming week with low 30's morning commute temps. Now I've at least got the proper tire pressure and I've got the grill blocked off. I need an EBH and I'm still looking for one in case somebody comes across a link for an online parts store!

 

The gas gauge in my '73 Pinto RULES over the one in the Prius.

I think, realistically, the current version of the Prius achieves low/mid-40's in Summer, low-40's/mid or high 30's in Winter. Yes, one can eek more out of it, but not without some effort/disruption of the traffic flow.

My overall average in it is right around 40, and that's more than double what my last car got.

 

I can't post what I think without being jumped on so I will keep it to myself.

 

One thing no one has mentioned here is the winter blend of gasoline. Living near Portland, OR it is required to have gasoline mixed with some additive (can't remember what it is) for the winter months. This is known to reduce gas mileage, typically around 10%.