Prius caught on fire!

great response Scott....or Megan...whoever you are

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LoreePrius @ Nov 21 2005, 08:36 AM) [snapback]159074[/snapback]</div>

Look out for what?

1) That you are relaying something totally unsubstantiated, and may do it again?
2) That your bother-in-law tells unsubstantiated stories . . . in an attempt to tease you about owning a Prius?
3) The lady at his work? Need we fear that she lights Prii on fire?
4) That a Prius, like ALL cars, can catch on fire?
5) Driving to Sacramento?
6) Toyota "not know" . . . something?

I also heard that Prius tires could blow out, cause the driver to lose control . . . and crash . . . killing everyone in the car.
Also another thing to look out for.

 

So we have cars spontaneously igniting due to unknown causes. Not just Priuses, but Jags, VWs, and probably everything under the sun.

Moral of the story? Cars sometimes spontaneously ignite. To protect yourself, never get into a car, ever, and stay far away from them at all times.

 

I have nothing to add to this thread other than these pictures I found on Flickr:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/glitterboi/39...57594548036646/

The third photo in the sequence shows the flames coming out of the cabin.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zqfmbg @ Nov 27 2007, 03:52 PM) [snapback]544813[/snapback]</div>

Oh you so WAY missed the point. Here, we have BATTERIES that caught fire. I mean, therefore totally electric cars would be way too dangerous . . . just forget about them ... AND your hybrids . . . just keep driving NON electric. Use ICE. (disregard that 20 gallon liquid bomb in your fuel tank which have burned thousands to death over the decades).

This has been a public service message brought to you by big oil and GM.

 

One thing which could cause a quick fire in a car, is when the power steering hose breaks and starts spilling fluid over the hot exhaust headers. Since the Prius has electric PS, clearly it wasn't the cause, but an engine fire can happen quickly with all the flammable liquids running to and through an engine.

 

I don't mean to destroy your confidence in Toyota's technical wonder. I do have a quite different perspective, however, as I am an involved and interested party but lack the religious ferver of a "believer". I feel there IS a danger but the incident rate is so small that it is off the screen. I am a Toyota Master Diagnostic Technician, QUITE certified in all areas of Prius diagnosis and repair. I do not own a Prius. I do admire the technology. That said, here is what I have SEEN. The left front and right rear of the metal case covering the battery was burned through as if by a cutting torch. The areas melted were directly over the extreme positive and negative terminals of the battery. It seems logical to me that the metal case became a conductor and the terminals arced to the case. The intense flame or arc burned the seat in the left rear position which probably was the beginning of the interior fire. Suzikins photos are very good and detail this perfectly. Her car was a series 1, as was the car I saw, so "double" is probably right that he need not worry. Besides, he's obviously a true blue believer. I'm investigating the practicality of something in the order of a welders flame proof mat to install in friends prius between seat and battery.

Hank

 

I was driving south to Portland once, and saw a Jeep Grand Cherokee on fire.

Another thing to watch out for on those Jeeps!

 

Nuther one.
Hank

 

No point in arguing with this master debater troll.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shhank @ Nov 27 2007, 11:47 PM) [snapback]545060[/snapback]</div>

Fascinating. I guess somebody must have replaced that pesky fuse with a solid chunk of steel to allow a dead short to do so much damage

I do industrial process control engineering, which means I have to sometimes work with potentially very dangerous DC systems. In particular, battery rooms for industrial scale UPS's. There is a lot of safety process involved - including those pesky fuses - to prevent potentially unlimited DC short circuit amperage.

If you're interested, PM me and I can discuss my industrial background in far more detail. That, and perhaps learn more of your background. If you live near a larger American city, I could refer you to PE certified engineers who will patiently examine your "evidence" and determine failure mode probability

The photos I attached are courtesy of forum member Hobbit and are of a disassembled Prius NiMH battery pack.

 

PM sent. Thanks for intelligent reply, Jayman.
Hank.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(beagle @ Nov 21 2005, 12:10 PM) [snapback]159095[/snapback]</div>

That is actually not to far from the truth. I own a VW Beetle as well and have had major problems with it. I started to do some investigation and it seems that there is a problem with certain year VW Beetles going up in flames. I would say from my own experience do not buy one. Buy a Prius instead

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shhank @ Nov 28 2007, 10:49 AM) [snapback]545211[/snapback]</div>

Hank

By now you should have received my PM

I did find photos of that Prius fire. I printed them off, and met with a person this afternoon who does arson investigation at industrial sites. We were going to chat over coffee anyway, so he didn't mind looking at the photos.

He examined them and waved off the suggestion of a battery "fire." In his opinion, it was deliberately set. I won't go into too much detail at this point, but NiMH does *not* do that. Many accelerants leave tell-tale clues on certain plastics

 

Thank you again, Jayman, for your genuine interest. Did your friend have an opinion regarding the holes melted through the steel battery cover at the opposing ends of the battery? That is consistant with the burned car I saw. In fact the two cars look identical except in detail. Mine had the seat pulled out, seat belts cut [by firefighters?] but a sort of grey powder residue near melted case. I don't think the battery burned. I think it turned into an arc welder. I can PM you pics, would love to have you show them to your expert also.

Thanks, Hank.

P.S. What's a "troll"?

Hank.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shhank @ Nov 28 2007, 09:47 PM) [snapback]545514[/snapback]</div>

Hank,

A troll is someone who posts to a forum mainly with the intent of stirring up trouble rather than participating in a genuine discussion. One of the moderators here, Tony Schaeffer, put together an excellent post on troll-identifying, history, etc.: http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=26600

With your first post to this forum being a) negative about the car B) light on details and c) a resurrection of an old thread, it struck me, and likely others, as trollish. The lack of details particularly in a negative first post, the lack of any links to the sources you cited, and the hint that details would be forthcoming if people were interested (rather than providing them up front) is just the sort of tactic that a troll-ish poster would use. In another context, such an introduction seems merely like sensible politeness; in an online forum like PriusChat, it is easily mistaken for insincerity.

In any case, it seems obvious now that your question was genuine and you've gotten some productive feedback from Jayman regarding it. I hope our first reaction to your post doesn't put you off the forum. It's an incredible wealth of information for any hybrid questions. Oh, and Welcome to PriusChat!
--Scott

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shhank @ Nov 28 2007, 09:47 PM) [snapback]545514[/snapback]</div>

It was hard to see in the photo, but the results appeared consistent with accelerants and/or a deliberate dead short. In other words, a safety fuse replaced with a piece of steel to allow a dead short.

If this was caused by improper SSC work at a dealership, I would imagine the dealership could face a lot of liability. Certainly in the case of the AC and DC industrial arc flash events I have investigated, improper servicing or deliberate action - bypass or removal or safety equipment - caused the event

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shhank @ Nov 28 2007, 09:47 PM) [snapback]545514[/snapback]</div>

AC and DC arc flash events are somewhat different in how they behave, especially in the case of industrial 3 phase events at 460 volts (United States), 575 volts (Canada), etc. Once you're stuck investigating a few such events, there are distinctive features that pop out.

As an example of "improper maintenance," consider one case where an instrument tech was using a nutdriver to tighten down the bolts on a new overload relay. The nutdriver slipped, for some reason the tech got *angry* at the nut driver, and flung it into the opened MCC panel.

Normally, the area immediately behind a switch has safety shields over the bus bars, but the nut driver bounced around and managed to drop down behind the open panel. The resultant arc flash event blew out the entire MCC row and the tech is lucky to have escaped with minor burns.

If you wish, you may PM the photos to me, especially close ups of the battery tray. I would also suggest contacting your local fire department investigator, the NHTSA, and the UL. All three should have experience - certainly the fire dept and the UL - with DC and AC arc flash events.

 

Thanks, Scott.
I suppose I was being a little "inflammatory". I'm an old fart and not clued to chat room ethics. The fire thing is new to me and I had no idea this was an old dead topic. The more I research, the less I find so I doubt the problem is in any way common. The trend in what I've read so far seems to indicate the cars burned while parked, so the danger to occupants may be nil. I DO worry about myself, my pals, and other techs who work on these things daily. I absolutely do NOT want to raise enough of a stink to lose my job.
P.S. I don't know a single Prius tech who doesn't wish he could turn in his "Prius badge" and never touch one again. Dangerous, back breaking work...lousy pay.
Hank.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(shhank @ Nov 29 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]545732[/snapback]</div>

hubby loved working on the prius, actually. well, minus the whole flat rate screwing you over on di-ag thing. the (literally) backbreaking stuff was the big tundras and sequoias, pulling the wheels off those things was murder on him, and that's what ended his career as a tech far earlier than expected.

all the better for us in the end. no more barely scraping by january through march, no more 17 hour days without overtime, no more of any of that bull.

 

I agree the technology was fascinating at first and problem solving is almost fun. However, I can't afford to spend my day solving Toyota's engineering problems FOR FREE. The back breaking part is dragging batteries and inverters out of cars. And bending over awkwardly to unbolt battery from inside car. I work on a lot of insurance cars [at least they pay] as well as warrantee and believe me, the thrill is gone.
Hank.