Is being green only for the rich?

A Newton MA resident, I remember Newton well when I lived in the Fenway while my wife and were at that "little school in Cambridge."

A poor choice with money, is buying something you CANNOT afford -- such as the whole subprime mortgage debacle that if effecting the global marketplace. This was done by a network of corrupt and short sighted banks who looked to extend loans to those who, realistically, had no means to repay these debts. Furthermore, these uneducated buyers, did no research and made no attempt (or were unable) to understand what they were signing. This is a perfect example of an absolute irrational purchase both by seller, AND the buyer. Buying a v8-powered truck or car is no more irrational then say living in a state that subsidizes a corrupt and enviromentally defunct project such as the Big Dig. One cannot take ones judgment values and impose them on others, it simply will not work and is flat out wrong. Furthermore, a V8 on it's own is not enviromentally damaging anymore then a 4 or even 3cyl motor!

This is the problem with some of your Prius owners, you somehow think that your lifestyle choice (yes owning a Prius is a lifestyle choice, and something that is marketed to) is somehow appropriate for others. It's not.

Let me leave with you an example: I am for the legalization of pot. Talk about a waste of money, one only has to go to any NYC court and see the myriad of cases (and money) wasted on trying non-violent pot offenders. I am don't toke, but I could care less if somebody else does as long as I am not stuck with their health care bills or they run into while high. Other then that, you want to destroy your body with alcohol or fatty foods, be my guest -- it's your life, take responsibility. Neither the government nor you should be telling me what my car purchase choices should be.

 

Wow what? Are you responding to the previous post? The thread as a whole? You're saying essentially what's already been said: That rich people (and yes, middle-America is rich by comparison to most of the world) produce more waste.

I don't think any of us are saying we can single-handedly make all the difference, but that maybe by promoting economically and ecologically sound ways of living we can at least reduce our impact on a larger scale. Which, believe it or not, could start to make a difference.

 

Other than the larger amount of raw materials needed to create said engine... I guess that's true until you turn it on.

So you'd support my choice to drive a car that lays down an oil slick behind me everywhere I go, and belches napalm out the side, setting fire to everything I pass? All of us here are doing that to a greater or lesser degree... Some of us are trying to promote a reduction of the damage we do, and forward-thinking to promote even better lives for future generations. I don't think this thread is saying "drive a Prius to make a difference..." Far from it.

p.s. Nice new screen name, bigfoot/zr2/whatever you want to call yourself. The same exact posting style, same things to say, same poor grammar and spelling are kind of a giveaway.

 

I'm sick of seeing his/her drivel posted everywhere under 4 different screen names. I've had to add 4 people to my ignore list in less than a week. Prior to this I've never had anyone on that list in the few years I've been here.

 

a lot of what is going on is that most of us here and elsewhere have been able to afford to spend the money to reduce our carbon footprint.

that at least is a step forward even if you do live in a house much bigger than you need. at least you have made the choice to be "greener" while others who can afford to waste resources, do so, simply because they can afford to do so. they cant see beyond the end of their nose.

there is a lot of difference between someone who gets a big screen tv because they want to watch their football team win and someone who leaves all the lights on in the house because he is too lazy to turn them off

as far as poorer people being greener because they cant afford excesses... i have a hard time believing that is the case.

i know a lot of people in the lower income spectrum of this country, and i simply dont see any of that at all.

**driving 20 years-old, poorly maintained vehicles

**living in run down poorly maintained apartments and houses that are nothing but energy sinks...these would not exist if there was not a lower income sector that could not afford to live anywhere else.

so, having money and being able to exert a bit more control over your environment does allow you to be greener....our problem is that many with the means dont know or care about being green... i suspect the primary reason is the latter

 

I have travelled the world over, and I can tell you that the US is by far one of the cleanest countries. Much of the world does not have basic sanitary conditions and cholera breaks out with regularity. To say we produce the "most" waste is just misleading, and I would even hazard wrong.

You can live however you want, however, I reserve the right to not adopt your lifestyle. I am all for energy and environmental conservation, but I do not believe that the way to effect a positive change is by being thought police. Furthermore, I believe that changing the driving habits of the general population pales in comparision to fundamental core changes in industry and manufacturing. We need to look at stopping coal burning power plants and use more nuclear energy, and frankly, we need to encourage the rest of the world to follow this lead. Unfortunately, do we really want NK and Iran using nuclear energy, even under the guise of peaceful civilian power?

Finally, we are in a global marketplace meaning industry will go to wherever their profits can be maximized. If it costs $15 to build a widget in the US because of cost of employing a worker with benefits and operating a green factory where as the same widget can be made for $.10 in China, where will the company go? There is the dilemna: in order to effect a change, these rules must be applied globally. So me driving my 1mpg Hummer is not going to make a dent, however, the world adopting some basic emissions standards will.

 

What? I didn't realize that a a V8 had more raw material then your Prius' motor. This is just more myth-telling to try and justify a marketing ploy by Toyota, a capitalist company that cares no more about you or the environment than GM. But bravo for buying into full force.

Again, "what?" No I said mandating that V8s are "illegal" is not the solution. There is nothing out there that says a V8 cannot be fuel efficient or emissions-friendly. Horsepower and engine dimmension and configuration have NOTHING to do with either. You are stuck in some personal dillusion to believing that only insecure wymin hating-men buy V8s because of deep seated inadequacy. To that I say: beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I have never been a fan of Jackson Pollock, but I enjoy Miles Davis -- if you don't like my choice, does that make you less of a person? In regards to forward thinking about the environment: I am all for it. Just bring me a plan that makes a difference. Don't talk to me about Prius' and light bulbs. Change has to happen on a global level, which is considerably more complicated then just telling everyone in the US to not buy V8s.

Ok, believe what you wish, but I is who I is.

Back to the original topic: there is something about this that just doesn't feel right. It hints at "are those of us who call ourselves 'enviromentally conscious' better then the rest of you sheep?" I just do not like where it is going.

 

Good luck with your doctorate *snicker*! Hope you get on a tenure track

I have no idea who this other chap is, but I am not him, and he is not I. You can chose to believe whatever you want.

PS - Nice MySpace page! Awesome!

PPS - An AAS, isn't that an associates? Good luck getting into a PhD program with that!

 

I am not nabbs. I am not ZR2. I have one screen name and one only. My spelling and grammar are just fine, thanks. As nabbs said, believe what you will. We are all different people.

EDIT: SUMMONING A MOD!!! PLEASE CHECK MY IP ADDRESS AS WELL AS MY "ALTER EGOS".

 

We must be doing something right, then.

 

A) I never said we produce the most waste. I was agreeing with you and saying that RICH people tend to have the means to produce more waste. It also happens to be a fact that Americans are richer per capita than much of the rest of the world.

B> You do have your moments of lucidity. I wonder why you keep spouting as if we completely disagree?

C) American consumers are wising up a little about China. Cheaper is not necessarily better.

A) I didn't say "Prius," you did. It's obvious that you're a Prius-hating troll or you wouldn't make this assumption. I was speaking on your terms. Let's simiplify so you can understand: In the absence of ANY vehicle, compare a generic V8 engine and a generic V4 engine. Which one weighs more? Does that help you understand what I'm saying? I guess the next thing you'll tell me is that the earth regenerates oil so we don't need to worry about burning the stuff?

B> Who ever said anything about outlawing V8's? Not me. There's a time and place for such things. I only wish people would have the common sense not to commute solo 60 miles each way in a vehicle like that, but that's not my decision, is it?

In conclusion, it seems like you say some sensible things once in a while, but your judgment is apparently blinded by an irrational hatred for the Prius and the people who drive them...

Whether or not you are that other guy is irrelevant really, since you sound exactly like him. If you're not him, you should try to look him up behind his proxy because you'd make good friends.

p.s. Don't feel compelled to defend yourself. We'll agree to disagree at this point.

 

You are refering to who?

 

How tiresome.
Check the per capita CO2 emissions of countries around the world. You will soon see that the people in USA(10), Australia(13), Canada(11) and the countries supplying fuel to their transport needs have much higher carbon footprints than those people who live in poorer countries such as China (91) and India (133).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

Less than 10,000,000 people in this world live in countries with a higher CO2 emissions per capita than the USA!! And a lot of those countries supply energy to USA so could be infuenced by the USA.

Even if you have PV solar hot water, buy only organic veg, and drive a Prius your carbon footprint is bigger than the Indian who has a small rural home and relies on a donkey or bicycle for transport even if this person has what he considers a good life style and plenty of food.

You are right trolling person which ever ID you used for the post saying you make almost no difference changing the vehicle you drive on the global situation. What you do by purchasing a very low emission low consumption vehicle is promote to people withing one of the most poluting societies in the world that there is an alternative to high fuel consumption which doesn't require an unreasonable sacrifice. In driving a Prius I am reducing my carbon footprint now what are you going to do? If we all act we will make a difference but if no one moves first we wont move at all in the right direction. You might also see that a disproportionately large number of PC members have Photovoltaic arrays on their roof of their home, they compost, they shop organic, drive electric when possible or walk or ride a bicycle because they understand that one action on it's own will make little difference but many actions made by many people will make all the difference in the world.

There is a place for large displacement vehicles, in goods transport. I would cry not one tear if governments globally legislate against driving vehicles for personal transport with engine displacement over 3 litres or using a vehicle which consumes more than 26MPG EPA city cycle to travel with less than 2 people in the vehicle within suburban areas unless carrying goods or towing a trailer. The government already dictate what you can and can't buy new, try buying a car which is built to 1966 specs brand new in the USA today. Those 66 vettes were pretty cool but you can't buy one new can you?

Think global act local.

 

The cost of replacing the battery platform in these "eco-friendly" cars is about 1/3rd th price of the car!

 

Thanks for the vital tip, Dr. Troll!

 

Good thing the rest of the parts that go bad on regular cars do not need replacing near as much on a Prius.

Here's $1 *waves it in your face*

Go buy a clue.

 

LOL!

You just rang the troll bell!

 

For whom the bell trolls???