Is There A"payoff" Period??"

Hi All,

While not a 1 for 1 relationship, the impact on the enviroment of any consumer item is roughly proportional to its cost. The more work or materials put into the something, the more it impacts the enviorment. At least to a first order, back-of-the-napkin evaluation.

So, the Prius having a costs break even before the car becomes uneconomically repairable is a good indication that the the car will indeed improve the enviroment.

Think about corn ethanol. Its not cheaper. And indeed, its costs do include fossil fuel expenditures which nearly offset its CO2 offsets.

 

I think you missed my point. If you are going to keep a car until it's value is essentially zero, then the residual doesn't really matter. Add up the total cost of ownership over the miles and that gives you your net out of pocket cost(s).

Icarus

 

This is not a tree-hugging rant, and there is no sarcasm. The environmental cost is not something that we can or should ignore. What we pay at the dealer and at the pump is NOT what we are paying to drive any car. We pay lots of other *real* money to do this. Why ignore it, and discount it as sarcasm and ranting? What this means is that a Prius "pays off" even sooner than the simple calculations imply. Is that somehow bad?

Want to know what else you are paying to drive your car? Have a look at this:
http://www.earthtrack.net/earthtrack/library/SubsidyReformOptions.pdf
An estimate of $49 to $100 billion dollars of energy subsidies in 2006. Those subsidies don't grow on trees. We pay for them.

 

That is an interesting paper. well worth reading and understanding.

 

Real men drink soy chai lattes, or mochas, or lattes, or any dang thing they want.
What does that have to do with the validity of someone's statement about the stupidity of expecting a Prius to have a "pay back" period, when absolutely NO OTHER VEHICLE has one? And, much else of what people buy to make themselves happy doesn't have pay back, either.

 

This info is a little dated, but it's relevent.


"With gas prices soaring, you, like many Americans, might be looking for the cheapest way to travel. You might be considering driving versus flying. Or you might be considering canceling your trip altogether.

But wait! Before you pull the plug on a family vacation or business trip, take a cold, hard look at the True Cost to Drive (TCD) figures for your car. Using the current national average of $3.20 per gallon of regular unleaded gas, and pulling in related maintenance costs, Edmunds.com has computed what it costs for a 3,000-mile road trip. This is roughly the distance from San Diego to Seattle and back with a few diversions along the way.

The 2005 Honda Insight, the first hybrid on the market, has the lowest TCD with a fuel cost of only $157, maintenance costs of $78 for a total of $235. The 2005 Toyota Prius came in second with fuel costing $179, maintenance at $71 and a total TCD of $250. The lowest all-gas powertrain vehicle was Toyota's 2005 Echo, which used only $251 worth of gas, required $71 of maintenance, for a total of $322. Meanwhile, the 2005 Pontiac Sunfire/Chevrolet Cavalier had the lowest TCD figures for a domestically made car with fuel costing $296, maintenance $82, for a total of $378."

 

Ever since I could afford to buy new cars, I have always bought them for their MPGs. Even if gas was 25 cents a gallon, I would still have bought a Prius. I would still rather that money, however great or little, go into my pocket as opposed to the pocket of some oil baron.

 

Jeez Steve-0,

Why do you always have to be such a sarcastic, ranting, latte-drinking tree-hugger?

 

I went shopping for a $25,000AU car. It came down to a choice between a new Corolla Conquest sedan with spoiler and a few other options or a second hand Prius.
(New Prius in AU = $37,400 for base model)

I bought a second hand Prius for $24,900AU on the road.
Prius maintenance is about the same as Corolla while fuel costs are lower. Interest on the loan is the same so I was in front at my first fill up. When I want to sell my Prius it will have taken less of a depreciation hit, I win again. It is quiet, less hearing damage, 3 lemons, I win again. (dad was a truck driver, he is deaf now)

Fact is if you are in the market for a car you will spend what you think you can afford, that is maybe a Prius or a BMW, which one costs more over it's life even if they cost the same to drive out of the showroom?

 

1) Are you out of Jr High?
2) I didn't ask if you were gay, why would I care?
3) You are apparently speaking of yourself.

 

Clearly your "friend" is myopic. Anyone can calculate a "break-even" point between the two cars. My question is simpler. Is your friend is sales? His mileage/wk seems high. Does he care at all about the impression he makes on others?

Get out of the Taurus and prove that you mean something. Isn't that the essence of sales...if my guess is correct... he should drive a Prius and drive his sales upward

If I'm wrong...talk to Jesse about his Prius dying at 349k only after being totalled in an accident. He bought a "new" Prius with 85k on it and paid a bit more that your friend with the Taurus. My guess is that he'll pass quite a few Tauruses on the side of the road that have reached their break-even point(s) long before his Prius.

QED

 

Well, this thread seems to be a little controversial somehow, but I'll add my two cents. Consumer Reports ran an article two years ago, where they ran all the numbers (insurance, maintenance, gas, etc.). They found a Prius saves a slight amount of money over a 5-year period compared to a Toyota Corolla, with an average of $2.67/gallon for the five years, and driving 12,000 or 15,000 miles (can't remember off-hand), and for a kicker they assumed hybrids (despite all evidence to the contrary) would have a lower-than-average resale value. (Keep in mind their print version had an error that tipped the balance slightly against the Prius).

So if you consider gas price has increased faster than they anticipated and the Prius loses very little resale value, it seems pretty clear it will save you money within a few years, even if you consider a Corolla an equal to the Prius. Most other published comparisons of a similar nature show a more clear favor to the Prius than CR did, but I don't have any links at my fingertips.

So yes, your friend would save money by driving a used Prius. Driving distances like that he's likely to get good mileage, perhaps 50 mpg.

Doug's scenarios:
1200/30=40 gal/week * 3 = $120 * 52 = $6240/yr
1200/50=24 gal/week * 3 = $72 * 52 = $3744/yr
Prius saves $2500/yr, assume $5000 more upfront, but $3000 more in resale (conservatively), it would pay off within a year.

Based solely on $, it would not be better than a used Geo Metro, however.

 

Consumer Reports' double counting error got retracted, but not their questionable Prius depreciation rate.

I even sent them a note about that. hmm. Maybe when the new model/version arrives, they will re-examine the economics of Prius and come to a more realistic conclusion.

 

Greetings from the other side of the pond. I have just joined this forum and only get my new T Spirit in 3 weeks time, but I had wondered similar things before buying a Prius and did all sorts of break even calcs to justify the cost of one. There is a greater incentive in the UK to look at mpg when gas costs almost $8 a US Gallon. Watch how many people buy a Prius if that happens in the US.... (and also re-run previous calcs using this rate).

At the end of the day though, I think you buy a Prius for many reasons, one of which is that it doesn't burn a hole in your pocket to run it. I started looking at this car initially from the "green" angle, to do my bit etc, then saw that it wasn't a Mickey Mouse car as depicted on Top Gear, in fact it looked rather cool; then it would save me money to run it; then the high tech in the car......... ALL of these reasons to differing extents made my mind up about a Prius and as far as I'm concerned this cars already got a pay off period (the day I decided to buy it).

For the more inquisitive though, there is a UK site, link below, that compares the cost of ownership for 3 years (assuming bought new) for vehicles. OK, theres a lot of UK vehicles on the site, but the Prius is there, plus BMW and Mercs and Audis which will probably be familiar to you. Check out the cost of running the Prius against any other car, its way ahead of its competitors.

What Car link below:

Car Comparison - What Car?

 

That was fun, PriusUk. thanks.

I compared Prius with Citroen Picasso, because we see the latter here in China. And of course, poor litter hummer always for the 3rd, to know how sad I should feel for those owners.

Is there another spot on the website where all the details are presented?

 

If he wants a used vehicle that gets great mileage, then a Geo Metro or Honda CRX HF would be a cheaper alternative to a Prius.

However, as has already been noted, maintenance costs for a Prius would be less, since there are far fewer moving parts to break down.

I bought anew Prius because I have neither the time, nor the patience anymore to be continually fixing my vehicles. Otherwise, I would just as likely bought the aforementioned CRX HF, though the payoff would have been in excess of five years compared to the paid-off Saturn I was driving previously.