Why do Germans go for domestic polluting cars instead of a Prius sold for the same price?

My guess would be that diesel is cheaper than petrol because of the tax structure. I think that that's the norm in Europe. So even though the cost of the vehicles are comparable, the cost of the fuel isn't.

 

I've been to Berlin with my Prius and saw very few Prii on the road. Just two in over 1000 miles of driving on German roads. So good luck finding a German owner here.

My guess: a combination of top speed and status (brand names). With a top speed of just over 100 mph, you tend to get overtaken all the time by faster cars, at least on those stretches of highway that have no speed limit. At that speed, the poor 1.5 litre engine has to work incredibly hard, not very comfortable.

 

Japanese cars are not all that popular in Europe.

 

some comments here from a german Prius owner...

We have two Prii ('02 P1 120.000 km, '08 P2 1.100 km) now.
Having heard of the Prius, we bought our first Prius (P1) three years ago, replacing a rather old VW Passat Variant. For us the choice was quite easy: 30% reduction in fuel consumption (7,5 - 8 l/100km with the old car) buying a 3 year old Prius 1 with roughly 30.000 km resulted in only a slightly higher overall price per km -- plus the added bonus of driving quite a new, technically inspiring and environmental "better" car.

We did not regret our decision. The P1 is still a great car and we enjoy every ride with it. Some days ago, we have added a spanking new P2 -- only slightly different to the P1 (not speaking of the design).

As for the Prius acceptance in Germany: I don't know what keeps German drivers from buying the Prius, although my Toyota salesman noticed a rising interest in the last years. I think that since the diesel is still going strong in Germany, most people here tend to compare the Prius to a diesel car, missing all the other aspects. Environmental conscience is growing, but we still have to do a lot of missionary work here... For younger folks, the Prius is too pricey -- perhaps Toyota should consider to add some hybrid versions to the smaller models, not only to the expensive Lexus line.

From time to time I see some Prius in our area, but I definitely think there should be many more! But anyhow, good to see that others seem to understand as well -- there is even a Prius taxi in a nearby town.

For me it's quite annoying to see that ther German car manufacturers are so reluctant to introduce more fuel efficient cars. In the last years I had the impression that every new generation of German cars only had to be bigger, faster and did not give a heck on environmental issues. Compare a new Audi A4 to its predecessors - the new model's size is more like an older A6! Same holds true for many other models. So with cars growing in size and power nobody seems to care about making more efficient cars.

Yes, there are quite a lot Smarts on the road around here, but with their tiny diesel engines and relatively high prices I don't think they provide a real solution.

Phew, I feel like I could go on babbling like this for hours, but I will stop for good now.

Just my 2 cents (Euro, of course)

 

i think that Germans just like Italians and Americans and Japanese want to buy cars that are made in there own country.

Americans are for EU measurements wobbly on the road ( suspension ) and Japanese are more cheap regarding there interior

so that leaves the EU German car.

suspension like a touring prius and interior plastic quality of a luxes

 

produce end off 2009 so i think selling by 2010

 

While I have not been closer to Germany than London, I've read quite a few European articles on hybrids...get the distinct impression they are unfamiliar with hybrids, therefore they don't like them. They are familiar with diesels, so they like them. Besides, diesels afford pretty good fuel economy at higher freeway speeds without having to be as attentive as a hybrid driver.

 

I'd also agree with the name as well. They like amongst others are loyal to there countries auto manufacturers.

 

Nothing against the Prius, but are you aware that Honda (the greenest motorcar company on the planet) dropped the Hybrid Accord in favor of diesel?

I think most forget that it costs energy to produce a vehicle. A hybrid that is not as light as the Prius (read Accord) contains more parts than that of it's diesel and petrol counterparts. There is a cost of energy associated with producing these extra parts and in most cases it's generated from fossil fuel.

Something else that get's missed... in the case of the Accord, the diesel version was actually more fuel efficient than it's gas/hybrid counterpart. Large industrial trucks/equipment throughout the world opt for diesel as they get better fuel economy than their gas counterparts (assuming equivalent engine displacement & vehicle weight).

Another tidbit... ~8 gals of diesel fuel can be produced from the same amount of oil that it would take to generate 1 gal of gasoline.

Last, but no least... hybrids (in general) lose their advantage when they are not in stop/go traffic where they can take advantage of the regenerative advantage of their breaks. Hybrids typically rely on their gas engine when running on the freeway (especially us Californians that love our air conditioning!). *Note - this is less noticeable in an extremely lightweight vehicle such as the Prius that will get superb mileage even when running solely on gas.


I will post later when I have more time, but I am curious as to what led you to believe they "pollute" more than a gas/hybrid?

 

A few times now, I've seen two Prius at the same time less than 1000 feet from my house. They are quite abundant here now. But it wasn't always that way. I suspect it's just a slower adoption rate and sales will grow as the reputation is established.

.

 

That's hard to believe. The post was loaded with incorrect and misleading information. But rather than feeding the obvious trolling attempt, I'll provide something to think about instead.

What do you have against diesel hybrids?

.

 

Nothing against the Prius, but are you aware that Honda (the greenest motorcar company on the planet) dropped the Hybrid Accord in favor of diesel?

I think most forget that it costs energy to produce a vehicle. A hybrid that is not as light as the Prius (read Accord) contains more parts than that of it's diesel and petrol counterparts. There is a cost of energy associated with producing these extra parts and in most cases it's generated from fossil fuel.

Something else that get's missed... in the case of the Accord, the diesel version was actually more fuel efficient than it's gas/hybrid counterpart. Large industrial trucks/equipment throughout the world opt for diesel as they get better fuel economy than their gas counterparts (assuming equivalent engine displacement & vehicle weight).

Another tidbit... ~8 gals of diesel fuel can be produced from the same amount of oil that it would take to generate 1 gal of gasoline.

Last, but no least... hybrids (in general) lose their advantage when they are not in stop/go traffic where they can take advantage of the regenerative advantage of their breaks. Hybrids typically rely on their gas engine when running on the freeway (especially us Californians that love our air conditioning!). *Note - this is less noticeable in an extremely lightweight, efficient vehicle such as the Prius that will get superb mileage even when running solely on gas.


I will post later when I have more time, but I am curious as to what led you to believe diesels "pollute" more than a gas/hybrid? Assuming equivalent size and displacement, modern diesel vehicles produce significantly less emissions than their gasoline counterparts, use/require less parts, are lighter, and use less fuel. What am I missing?

The reason that Europe taxes gas and gives a break on diesel is to reduce oil usage. In the past 10 years (since switching to diesel) Europe has reduced their oil consumption by almost 40%. If you go to Europe and rent a car the size of a Civic or larger your virtually guaranteed to get a diesel.

I think the US finds the concept of diesel as well as the concept of raising gasoline tax as "non sexy interim solutions" to the current "green movement". I think most of our legislators want "science fiction", not practicality and that's unfortunate as Europe has clearly made substantial progress...

 

I don't have anything against diesel hybrids. Europe is clearly in the lead as far as the development curve. As production increases costs will be reduced, and technology (read less complexity & weight) will win out.

I'm not a troll and I am not against hybrids. As far as inaccuracies, I think you might read the post again... Perhaps you misconstrued what I was trying to say?

 

The HAH was a failure. Putting a I6 in it instead of an I4 was a mistake. The HAH was a performance car. It outperformed the petrol Accord. Sales were terrible because no one buys an Accord for muscle and hybrid types are generally more interested in fuel economy. It's not surprising that a diesel version gets better mileage.

Numerous studies (Art Spinella's CNW report, Dust to Dust, not withstanding) have shown that about production and disposal account for 15% of the energy consumed during a vehicle's lifetime. That means that 85% is consumed operating the vehicle. So if there's an edge in efficiency, it's very likely that the more efficient vehicle will use less total energy over it's lifetime, even if it's production inputs are higher.

See above.

The reason that they're diesel is that diesel engines produce a lot more torque at low RPMs than petrol engines. Electric motors are even better. That's why locomotives use electric motors for their motive power. The energy is supplied by diesel engines though.

Where did you get that? Diesel has about 15% more energy than petrol, so it takes more oil to make it. Petrol requires more refining and thus requires more energy inputs.

It really depends on the hybrid. There's a lot of variation in the designs. The Prius can get excellent mileage on the highway because of the Atkinson cycle engine it has. Also, I would not consider the Prius to be "extremely lightweight". It's over 2800 lbs.

None that are sold in the US. The Prius' emissions are much smaller than the average diesel's emissions. The T2B5 cars aren't in the same league.

They made that decision a long time ago and it was a good one, at least from an oil consumption point of view. It took them a while to achieve a high diesel adoption rate.

However, transportation emissions are on the rise in Europe, so they've got a long way to go.

 

The problem with diesels is that they don't offer a scalable solution. Standard HEVs don't either, but they are the first step along a different path (actually, the BEVs made in the mid-late 90's were the first step, but I digress) that holds the promise of vastly reduced liquid fuel consumption. Something that diesels can't offer.

Don't get me wrong, if done correctly, diesels can be an excellent short term solution. But like the first gen hybrids we've got now, they aren't a long term fix to our transportation problems.