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GM says Two Mode Hybrid System Trumps Competition

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Tempus, Dec 23, 2004.

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  1. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

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    The fact that DaimlerChrysler and General Motors will soon be selling vehicles with a hybrid system that's superior to anything on the road today from Ford, Honda, or Toyota pretty much got lost in media coverage of the competitors' announcement of their decision to work on a common two-mode system.

    Also lost in the clamour about the two companies having changed their minds about the importance of hybrids is that the hybrid technology that currently exists is already outdated and will likely be gone in a couple of years.

    But for consumers willing to spend more for hybrids so they can reduce their fuel use, the most important points coming out of the announcement by DCX and GM is that they'll be offering a system that's less expensive, more fuel-efficient and more versatile.

    http://www.globemegawheels.com/servlet/Art...HINSIDE23/cars/
     
    #1 Tempus, Dec 23, 2004
  2. snarfo

    snarfo New Member

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    I hate to sound like an optimist, but that reads as "We dragged our butts so now we need some quick daamge control and spin doctoring" to me. Interesting article... they claim that by late 2007 their system will be available. Well, that's a mere DECADE after the original Prius was introduced. By late 2007 Toyota will have given the current Prius a midlife spiffing and they will be well on the way to delivering their 4th-gen hybrid system.

    I suppose I shouldn't count out the domestic behemoths just yet. My first four cars were all GM until I bought a Camry--- then it was all over. Maybe now they will wake up and give a real shot and try to be competitive... but it's hard to beleive when the CEO of DaimlerChrysler was quoted in a recent issue of Motor Trend as saying that Chrysler hopes to match Toyota quality by 2006. Good luck!
     
    #2 snarfo, Dec 23, 2004
  3. Batavier

    Batavier Member

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    It sounds a lot like the system already in use in the Prius... I really hope they can make something better and cheaper, that way hybrids will become even more common. :)
     
    #3 Batavier, Dec 23, 2004
  4. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    #4 richard schumacher, Dec 23, 2004
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    My exact thoughts!! I read and re-read the following paragraphs and can't understand how it differs from Toyota's system....

    Compact and powerful electric motors are integrated into the transmission and work with traditional transmission gears and electronic controls to provide two modes, or ranges, of infinitely variable gear ratios. The input split mode is used for launching the vehicle from a stop, driving at low speeds and providing better performance and moderate load trailer towing. The compound split mode is used primarily when the vehicle is at higher speeds to provide efficient cruising.

    "The AHS2 drive modes alternate seamlessly between the input split mode and a compound split mode," Stephens says. "In the input split mode the vehicle can operate on electric, mechanical or a combination of the two. The vehicle operates as a full hybrid when the engine is shut off at low speed and light loads, as leaving the engine off for extended periods of time and moving under electric power is key to reducing fuel consumption in stop-and-go traffic."

    As complicated as the technology is, "it all happens without the driver realizing it," says Larry Nitz, executive director of GM's hybrid program. "AHS2 simply optimizes power and torque for the given driving conditions, and all the driver feels is the satisfaction of low fuel consumption and the exceptional reserve power and performance."

    The addition of a second mode to the drive system improves efficiency and reduces the need for the "exceedingly large electric motors" that are typical of today's single-mode systems, Nitz says.

    "Typical single-mode systems depend on large electric power loops between two large electric motors, resulting in inefficiency and ultimately less continuous power," Nitz says. "AHS2 delivers seamless, dependable power on demand and in a more efficient power flow -- and is packaged with motors less than half the size of single-mode systems."

    A sophisticated controller determines when the vehicle should operate in either mode of the two-mode drive system, Nitz explains.

    The only thing is a suggestion of a single motor that's smaller??
     
    #5 efusco, Dec 23, 2004
  6. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Didn't the Big 3 already reveal their hybrid cars a few years back? What happened to those?

    Why are they all concerned about the vast amount of research and development that they supposedly already did in the 1990s?

    Does it sound to anyone else that they are reinventing the hybrid wheel?
     
    #6 TonyPSchaefer, Dec 23, 2004
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    One word....
    "Spin"
     
    #7 efusco, Dec 23, 2004
  8. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    the instant you put a clutch of any kind in the PSD or what ever they want to call it, I won't buy it. Clutches break, wear and exibit all sorts of nasty negatives. The current Toyota planetary gear set is the least expensive most bullet proof setup there is, Bar Non. As for smaller electric motors we currently employ 2 that along with the CVT fit in a space smaller than the automatic transmission in the average FWD car. More parts, more complex, more computer controls=less reliability and more expense, not less. I'll go with Evan, spin
     
    #8 Frank Hudon, Dec 23, 2004
  9. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That diagram of their "two-mode" system was both amusing & scary.

    How in the world are they going to get people to buy that more complex system that doesn't work as well as the simple PSD we currently use?

    Clearly, they are now becoming desperate to catch up. History has repeated itself. Denial will cost them dearly. To think that just a few years ago they were making fun of hybrids, calling them a "stop gap" that was a complete waste of resources to invest in.
     
    #9 john1701a, Dec 23, 2004
  10. GreenSteve

    GreenSteve Web Hosting Provider

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    OK, if the GM system is truly superior, then I expect we will find that their vehicles obtain better gas mileage and produce fewer harmful emissions than a Prius. Right?
     
    #10 GreenSteve, Dec 23, 2004
  11. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    One would think. It will be interesting (well, maybe only amusing) to see what definition GM comes up with.
     
    #11 richard schumacher, Dec 23, 2004
  12. seymourd

    seymourd New Member

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    Direct quote from the article:
    "When combined with technologies like Displacement on Demand, says Stephens, AHS2 will enable the V-8-powered SUVs to deliver a fuel efficiency improvement of at least 25 per cent"
    All this for a lousy 25% improvement in fuel efficiency!!
     
    #12 seymourd, Dec 23, 2004
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    The other quote that's funny is the "soon available"....like they have suddenly evolved this technology that they claimed they weren't interested in but are now claiming is more advanced than the current outdated technology of Toyota.

    What utter non-sense.
     
    #13 efusco, Dec 23, 2004
  14. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

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    I hope they break down and everyone makes fun of GM and then they all buy Prius
     
    #14 flareak, Dec 23, 2004
  15. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Conversely, I'd love it if GM and/or Ford succeeded in the hybrid market...we need everyone making them reliably and competatively to really see hybrids advance. But this BS of how much better their technology is than Toyota's "outdated" system and all the other BS spin will just come back on them when they can't produce.
     
    #15 efusco, Dec 23, 2004
  16. Kablooie

    Kablooie Member

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    It's been less than a year that Hybrids have been hot and only a few months since GM changed their tune and decided to jump on the bandwagon.

    So, in the past, say, 4 or 5 months, they've redesigned the hybrid system to be much more efficient and powerful than the Toyota system which has been in intense development and use for more than a decade.

    What an incredible staff of geniuses they must have there at GM to master such a feat in such a short time!

    Well, soon we shall see how reality matches their lofty WORDS.
     
    #16 Kablooie, Dec 23, 2004
  17. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    No no no, you don't get it.
    GM's been bluffing!! They've been secretly developing this super-duper advanced technology for years! They wanted to let Toyota take the lead here just to stir they hype so they would be poised to totally take over the market with their superior technology!!!

    The Sierra "hybrid" was just a ploy to further set the trap and throw us off the trail of their super-duper hybrid scheme!
     
    #17 efusco, Dec 23, 2004
  18. Canuck

    Canuck Member

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    Now, now, peoples, all this is really not in the holiday spirit... we should be encouraging our brethren automobile manufacturers to get with the hybrid program(me). Now I don't think it's wrong to say that I would hope when Santa trades in his reindeer team he will purchase a Prius to pull the sleigh. ho, ho, ho Merry Holiday to all. :roll: :partytime: :party: :clap: :multi:
     
    #18 Canuck, Dec 23, 2004
  19. Kablooie

    Kablooie Member

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    Bah humbug!

    If I could work my will, every idiot who goes about with "GM Hybrids'' on his lips, should be boiled with his own crankcase oil, and buried with a steering column through his heart. He should!
     
    #19 Kablooie, Dec 23, 2004
  20. Canuck

    Canuck Member

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    Kablooie, if you are still driving that machine I can certainly understand your Scrooge attitude. Guess your significent other drives the Prius, eh?
    Heres a few points to cheer you up. :D
     
    #20 Canuck, Dec 23, 2004
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