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Is this a major problem? I have not hit anything...

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by butchbs1985, Feb 10, 2008.

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  1. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    I found something disturbing while doing my 60K maintenance tonight.:eek: (Trans fluid, oil, rotate tires). I found a crack around one of the bolts at the joint between the transmission and whatever it joins to (don't have the technical diagram in front of me). The damage is shown in the following image:
    IMAGE_00015.jpg

    I modified the image that Hobbit created for his posts about Prius maintenance to illustrate exactly where the issue is. That is shown here:
    nakedunder.jpg

    This is not leaking nor does it appear to have ever been leaking. Should I get this to a dealer right away for service or should I wait to see what happens with it. Since it is not leaking, I feel that there is not any current issue but that I should just keep an eye on it. Let me know what you think please. I am hoping for guidance from someone with more Prius drivetrain experience than I.

    Thanks!
     
    #1 butchbs1985, Feb 10, 2008
  2. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    if it's not leaking, just keep an eye on it.

    wow. DH has only seen something like that *once* on any car and that was on a remanufactured tranny that was installed. they messed up the case during the reman process.

    the only thing to do to rectify it would be to replace the housing for big bucks. if it starts leaking, transaxle case sealant probably won't stop it.

    anyone else drive your car? ever? you *sure* that you *never* hit anything?
     
    #2 galaxee, Feb 10, 2008
  3. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    I bought it used with 20K miles on it so it is possible that something happened before that but there was nothing reported on CarFax. I have not hit anything that I know of and my wife does not drive the car much.

    I would think that something would have had to hit that VERY HARD to cause such damage.

    I have the extended warranty until 100K miles. If I take it in, do you think that they will say that I probably hit something or is it possibly covered?

    Thx.
     
    #3 butchbs1985, Feb 11, 2008
  4. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    You do realize that very little shows up on CarFax. Saying "nothing was reported on CarFax" is akin to saying "I didn't read about it in the paper." Only a small percentage of accidents show up, which is why many people don't bother with their service.

    Tom
     
    #4 qbee42, Feb 11, 2008
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Having reviewed the close-up pictures, I find it hard to believe that something was hit hard enough to crack the housing without damaging the bolt. In my opinion (please note that I'm not a tech), it would seem that impact damage would leave scraping evidence.
     
    #5 TonyPSchaefer, Feb 11, 2008
  6. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Your cracked area is on the non-threaded side, fortunately, so
    the bolt is still firmly in place. Any idea how it might have
    happened? You might consider the possibility of removing the
    bolt temporarily, and maybe trying to work some JB-weld or
    something into the crack, and then retorque it with a larger
    washer [possibly pre-bent in a way that helps retain the shape
    of the engine-side boss] over top to spread out the stress some.
    In this case [ha, bad pun] it may be worth a quick-n-dirty
    non-optimal workaround as opposed to the very expensive and
    labor-intensive alternative.
    .
    This is why we need skid plates!
    .
    _H*
     
    #6 hobbit, Feb 11, 2008
  7. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    If it aint broke,, don't fix it.

    It looks like something hit it. Even if they were to honor it under warrantee, taking the transaxle apart to replace 1/2 of the case would be crazy.
    The risk of taking the bolt out, and repairing it is that you could start a leak.

    I would keep an eye on it. In any case you have the 100k warrantee so if it starts to leak 'tween now and then you can pursue it later.

    Icarus
     
    #7 icarus, Feb 11, 2008
  8. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    you'd have a hell of a time getting that covered under warranty. they'll claim damage, not part failure. i can guarantee that.
     
    #8 galaxee, Feb 11, 2008
  9. Qlara

    Qlara New Member

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    The pic you show is too blurred, do you have a clear one?

    The cracked area maybe due to over-torquing the bolt during re-installation. Factory rarely made such a mistake during assembly, but I won't exclude the possibility of a defective housing in the first place.

    You may want to dig some history of your car.
    Did the drivetrain got disassemble for repair before?
    Or the last owner was mistakenly thinking it was a drain plug and torque it incorrectly?
     
    #9 Qlara, Feb 11, 2008
  10. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Yes I understand that only reported accidents show up. I suppose that it is possible that something could have happened and not been reported.:confused:
     
    #10 butchbs1985, Feb 11, 2008
  11. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Any idea where I could dig for information? Interesting theory on the drain plug possibility. I have no knowledge of previous transmission work / dissembly.
     
    #11 butchbs1985, Feb 11, 2008
  12. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    the bolt would fail before the case.
     
    #12 galaxee, Feb 11, 2008
  13. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    So I took it to Toyota today and surprise, surprise... They say that it was hit by something so will not be covered under any kind of warranty. I was told that they have never done the work that it will take to fix the crack will run me at least $5,400.00. That said, I like the idea of using J-B weld to hold it together but may take that one step further. I am sending more detailed images to a friend who has all sorts of welding awards / certifications of some sort. He seems to think that he may be able to TIG weld the crack to keep it from getting any worse. We'll see what happens.

    Until it gets warm out however, I will just keep an eye on it since it is not leaking now. I don't think that it is an urgent issue unless it starts to leak.

    The other thing that the Toyota tech said was that I could try an insurance claim since it must have been hit by something while driving. I don't know if that is worth the hassle though.
     
    #13 butchbs1985, Feb 12, 2008
  14. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Mike has welded cracked oil pans that were way worse than
    what you've got, so it's very likely that competent TIG
    welding will do the right thing by you long-term.
    .
    _H*
     
    #14 hobbit, Feb 12, 2008
  15. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Maybe a previous owner / jiffy lube tech tried to lift the front of the vehicle using the transmission case?
     
    #15 dogfriend, Feb 13, 2008
  16. sugar land dave

    sugar land dave Member

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    Unless there are impact marks to back the mechanics "must have hit something" opinion, I would be more inclined to believe "manufacturing defect." Even the most modern factories have flaws occur. If they are going to deny your extended warranty claim, they better have some proof to back up their position. You paid your money for protection, and with a competent attorney, can most likely persuade them to have a different opinion.

    If he were alive I could just hear Johnny Cochran: "If the case ain't nicked, you must convict!"
     
    #16 sugar land dave, Feb 13, 2008
  17. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    Notwithstanding the tongue-in-cheek quote at the end I agree with this concept. At the very least it's worth a call to Toyota Customer Care in an effort to escalate this matter to those able to make a more serious determination of whether this should be warranty covered or not.

    While some sort of impact may have contributed it seems odd that there isn't some other evidence of a hard impact and I'd push the issue that it appears to be a manufacturing defect. Put the onus on them to prove the impact theory and put the pressure on them to fulfill the extended warranty coverage and make it clear that you're willing to take it to arbitration (since you probably signed something saying you'd go to arbitration before taking legal action when you bought the car).
     
    #17 efusco, Feb 13, 2008
  18. butchbs1985

    butchbs1985 Taking things apart is fun!

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    Updated pictures. I wasn't able to do anything because it was cold / I was busy. I guess that it does look like something impacted it but it does not look like it scraped across something. More like it got dropped on something.

    What do you think?
     
    #18 butchbs1985, Mar 18, 2008
  19. Rick Grahn

    Rick Grahn New Member

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    I would bet on this...lifted wrong.
     
    #19 Rick Grahn, Mar 18, 2008
  20. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Ah, yes, the joys of buying a used car...
     
    #20 richard schumacher, Mar 18, 2008
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