Hybrid Pickups?

Apparently, you haven't been to California. We have almost twice as many registered vehicles (over 32 million) as Texas (over 17 million).

Table MV-1 - Motor Vehicles - Highway Statistics 2005 - FHWA

More air pollution too. If you don't believe me, take a trip to Los Angeles in July or August.

 

Do the math on a 3mpg difference from 15 to 18mpg and you'll be impressed. You would save roughly $600/yr if fuel was $3.50/ga. If Hybrid P/U manufactures minimized exlpoitation of profits on hybrid premiums then the fuel savings would indeed be worth the extra cost. This would also go a long ways towards reducing air pollution because so many large vehicles would not be idling at every stoplight.

New technologies that push current hybrid cars from 50mpg to 70mpg should not be the main focus. Pushing non-hybrids from 15mpg to 30mpg should be as would make a MUCH larger impact on fuel supplies and total air/land pollution.

 

This is such a bogus argument: Do the math comparing a gas guzzling pickup driven only when needed and a 45+ mpg prius driven most of the time - the savings in gas and pollution will be much greater than buying a hybrid pickup that gets 3 xtra mpg over the non hybrid version. DO the math on buying one of the GM Big Hybrids at $40K+ versus a $22K prius and a F150 or F250 for $20K or less (14K for a reg cab V6 F150). The pickup will probably last forever!

This self serving argument has been devised by gm because they got caught with their pants down on small hybrids and only have vaporware like the Volt to flog..You can bet if they had a prius level hybrid they'd be having a "buy two and save campaign"


As I commute from work most days I see the same pickups with one passenger and no cargo - 90%+ of the time they are just driven as personal transportation. I have an F250 for the rare towing and not so rare hauling I do, and the combination works great. I save plenty on gas, have the proper vehicle for the job without being concerned about wasting gas, and have a spare vehicle to boot for times when one is in the shop.

 

What is really needed is a shift in attitude by US consumers (Australian too) because when small vehicles aren't seen as toys, or girls or fags cars then a tradesman and recreational users might consider a smaller vehicle like

if it is capable of doing the job.
How many mechanical workshops have a pickup for parts pickups and running about? How many plumbers have a pickup to carry a drain snake and a few tools? A Jumbuck would most likely do the job for a lot of Americans (and Aussies) but they are stuck in the mindset that small is gay or girly.

Once that is overcome then the idea of hybrids needs dealing with. There are too many ignorant people saying hybrid drivers are pussies, gay, girls so with morons spreading that crap you are up against it trying to sell a hybrid pickup, especially with ads telling people the size of the truck's V8 engine defines the man. Didn't Dodge even bring out a V10 truck?

 

Yes they did, but you have to be a real man to drive one of those.









Actually, we have some friends who had one of those Dodge Extended Cab 4WD with a V10 Gas (Petrol) Engine. They averaged about 10 mpg and it cost over $75 to fill it when gas was a dollar cheaper than it is now. They got rid of it.

 

No sir you missed the point. If the majority of people are going to drive trucks/SUVs to work and back then a 3mpg gain is going to have a larger effect than those currently driving Prius/Hybrid Civics gaining 7mpg. The simple fact is that there are far more people commuting in 15-20mpg vehicles than there are in 40mpg+ vehicles.

I think the piont you meant to make is based on everyone switching from a 20mpg SUV to a 50mpg Prius. If this were the case then I completely agree with you. The reality is that the majority of people will not give up their large SUVs and trucks and switch to a Prius or Civic without some serious economic incentives.

I also stated that for hybrid trucks to work the manufactures would have to reduce their profit margin and stop toying with ultra-expensive luxury edition Yukons and Escalades and start putting the systems in those $20-$25k F-150s and Silverados.

 

In my part of the country, diesel is about 32% higher in cost than unleaded. I hear all the big burly pickup dudes complain every day at the break table.

 

I just returned from a business trip and was - again - reminded of how bloated North American vehicles are, compared to those in the EU

I personally feel that hybrid pickups or utes are a non-issue for the North American market. With the implosion of the housing market in the US, and fuel prices slowly but surely climbing, many will have to make the decision to park the giant SUV, or starve/become homeless

The entire pickup/SUV thing is a marketing ploy anyway. I've seen Ford F-450 crew cab pickups around here with leather interior, having just one occupant. In basic trim (Cloth seats and rubber floor) I'm sure they're just the ticket for a construction crew. But a grocery getter??

Ford Motor Company of Canada, Limited

The vast majority of vehicles here are single occupant. Yes, the ones I hear pissing and moaning the loudest are the ones with the biggest Bling pickup/SUV. Well, tough s***.

Nobody points a gun to your head and forces you to pay +$50,000 CDN for a giant SUV, when a Prius is $30,000 Cdn, and a Corolla is $20,000 Cdn. We're all big boys and big girls here, deal with it

I think a lot of folks here are surprised I commute in my Prius and not my FJ Cruiser. For me the FJ is strictly a weekend toy, and a bad weather backup. I have a bit over 10,000 km on it after a year of ownership, but that is due to driving my father to the Mayo Clinic 4 times. He prefers the comfort of the FJ over my Prius

Otherwise, I would only have around 5,000 km. Even at that, if I rented a SUV or pickup from Enterprise, as often as I drive out to the hobby farm I would have exceeded the cost of just buying the FJ.

There is a safety issue too. No rental agency here in Manitoba equips their fleet with winter tires for winter driving. My FJ runs dedicated winter tires for winter driving

If a person only needs a large vehicle once or twice a year, it makes far more sense to just rent one.

 

I'm not sure about Dodge, but in a parking lot that I use frequently because of my work I often park next to a massive blue Ford F250 which has an emblem on the front fender touting it as a "Triton V10". I'm acquainted with the owner and once asked him what sort of mileage he gets. His reply was "about 20" to which I was tempted to respond "between fillups?" but held my tongue. It never ceases to amaze me how frequently people exaggerate their mileage in a positive way. I'm not sure whether it is a guilty conscience, wishful thinking, or buyer's remorse.

 

Oh sure, that's easy from the Triton V10. All you have to do is hook a chain to the front bumper, shift into neutral, and have another vehicle tow it around.

"About 20" bull and s***. With my 2000 GMC Sierra, Vortec 5.3 V8, I averaged 15 in summer and 7 in winter. At highway speeds in summer, I could sometimes reach 17, and once a leisurely sideroad journey at 80 km/h, I got 21

City driving in temps of -30 C and colder, more like 5 MPG. Those are honest numbers that I can back up, as I had to keep meticulous records. After all, the truck was a writeoff and I was using it for my business.

It's one thing when somebody gets a V10 as a grocery getter, it's another thing when they delude themselves and bulls*** everybody around them as to the fuel economy they're getting

 

Truth is he most likely didn't know because he didn't know how to work it out.

 

I drove an F250 regular cab V10 for a few days and the milage was horrific and the power even more so. Floor it at 70mph and it just makes a bunch of noise. The truck was much slower than my Prius.

 

Just for the record, the fuel economy for my FJ

Summer mixed driving, 23. Winter mixed driving, 17. City driving in temps of -30 C and colder, 12. Summer highway driving, speed 80-90 km/h: 28

Note about fuel economy, I’m converting to Imperial Gallons, not US gallons. There are 4.54 litres per Imperial gallon, 3.78 litres per US gallon

 

I see a few FJs around, they are kinda interesting looking vehicles although I've never taken a real close look at one. I tend to have more use for a pickup than an SUV. I rarely have passengers now that my kids are grown and gone.

I recall reading somewhere that the FJ requires the burning of premium gas. Is that the case? What engine do they have? I'm thinking possibly the 4.0L V-6, same engine that goes in the fancier Tacomas? My Taco has the 2.7L I-4. I did a little experiment just to see what speed did to mileage in it the other day on a flat stretch of road, no wind to speak of, and using the ScanGaugeII:

75mph.........20mpg
70mph.........23mpg
65mph.........26mpg
60mph.........28mpg
55mph.........31mpg
50mph.........33mpg

I do not claim any scientific veracity to any of this, I would simply cruise at the given speed for a couple of minutes and watch the gauge. The truck was fully warmed up and all were run in 5th gear of a 5-speed manual transmission.

Some of the older members may recall the much-hated "double-nickel"......while many did not obey it, I have to believe that it probably did save some fuel over the decade+ that it was in effect in this country.

 

Yes, the fuel door has a sticker about Premium. I asked the dealership about this and they handed me a TSB stating that Premium was used to achieve the rated HP and torque, and that 87 was fine to use

I've used both regular and premium in my FJ. One odd thing I noticed was that if run on Shell V Power, I gained around 1.5 mpg average. So I kept using V Power, I don't drive the FJ that much. For example, since December I've put on a whopping 600km

Correct, the aluminum 4.0 which I believe is also used in the Taco, and base 4Runner. About the only difference is that the FJ uses regular copper spark plugs, not longer life plugs. There was a heated debate at the FJ site about early plug changing

I changed the plugs in my FJ motor last fall when it had around 8,000 km on it. I was *very* surprised to find different plugs used on the driver side V compared to the passenger side V: driver side V had NGK's, and passenger side had Denso's.

Napa here had a sale on plugs so I got the correct NGK ones. I was surprised to end up with a much smoother idle, and it started faster too. Before, it would need 5-6 cranks before firing, now 2-3 cranks. No difference in fuel economy, but seems a tad peppier

That is a *very* good way to determine fuel economy. No made up bulls*** about "around 20" like the V10 owner. Especially a boxy thing like my FJ, slower is better. Since I'm never in a rush, and the drive out to my hobby farm is on winding roads with lower posted speeds, I tend to average 80-90 km/h.

The double nickle saved a huge amount of fuel. I have a long haul trucker neighbor near my hobby farm, and he claims he can gain almost 2 mpg slowing down to 55.

For a lot of commuters who insist on driving large pickups or suv's, they have a choice: slow down and save a lot on gas, or keep driving fast while pissing and moaning about how expensive it is

 

I don't think he missed the point at all. IMO, any action that continues the trend of using trucks/SUVs for commuting when much smaller vehicles would suffice is not a wise move in the long run. It would much better to continue building better and more-efficient smaller vehicles and let economic incentives of switching to a smaller vehicle grow. In a perfect world, I would say you have a good point and there should be a major focus on improving mpg on trucks/SUVs, but since so many people insist on getting large vehicles for silly reasons, it isn't the best long-term solution.

Anecodate examples: A family with four kids were driving around a big Tahoe. When gas went to $2 a gallon they decided it was just too much and downsided to a Mazda MPV. He loved the improved mileage and still having run for all of the kids. (My sister also downsized from her beloved trucks to a 4-door car when gas hit $2 and I told her it was going to keep going up. Went from 14-15mpg to 28-30mpg).

Another couple got pregnant and both had midsized SUVs. He decides they need more room while she is pregnant and buys a Chevy Crewcab truck when gas was about $2.50. This is used to commute back and forth to work (job doesnt' require truck and no hobby farm, etc).

The difference between the two is that one family was feeling the effect of gas bill increases and downsized their vehicle. The other hasn't been economically impacted enough. So, examples how keep building efficient cars (and build minivans)that increase the economic incentive of downsizing (assuming thatb emissions are still reduced) we eventually get American society to end it's fascination with large vehicles.

 

This will not happen overnight without drastic circumstances arising. I am well aware of what is the most sustainable path but I am also being realistic in my opinion that the majority of U.S. drivers are not going to give up large vehicles quickly. So my point remains that upping the efficiency of all sizes of vehicles is more productive at this point in time than focusing only on small cars. Why is that so hard to understand?

Yes in my perfect little world we would be using mass transit and only using personal vehicles for special trips but we don't live in utopia yet and there are too many ignorant people out there who simply don't care. Unless the economy or regulations dictate a change in driving habits people will not readily make the switch.

Ultimately we are only trying to buy ourselves time for better materials and manufacturing to allow the use of large vehicles but with much less mass and thus higher efficiency. In reality the market will crash and the U.S. will implode on itself long before this happens. lol

 

What throws a monkey wrench into that - along with the assorted feces - is that for business use, it's easier to just get a big vehicle. I have my own company, with the present income level I could easily get something like a Range Rover HSE or a Lexus LX470/570, as there are very generous tax incentives to do so

It was actually a royal PITA to get my Prius and use it for business. I can claim basic depreciation (Already depreciated down) and 57 cents a km.

With something like a luxury Lexus or other SUV, or say a Toyota Seqouia Platinum, I can immediately apply various "work" vehicle tax incentives. I'm sure there are similar incentives in the US which is why you see H2's and crew cab dually's with leather trim interior used as "work" trucks

Given my financial situation, whether I get 10 mpg, 20, or 60, really doesn't make any difference to me. I drive a Prius just because it makes "sense" to do so, at least to me. The FJ is a fun weekend toy which sits parked in the garage the rest of the week

But there are a lot of folks out there who can NOT write off a vehicle, especially for commutting every day. In that situation, which I see every morning with all the suv's and crew cab pickups with just one occupant, they are quite foolish to have such a vehicle

Perhaps 85% will never approach the weight or tow capacity of their big vehicle. If you only have to haul or tow once or twice a year, rent a truck. Far cheaper

 

Wow!
As soon as I looked at the OP, I got out my cutting torch and went straight to work, but I should have scrolled though the thread first, becuase now my Prius is all cut up and when I saw Pat's Prius Pickup, I liked his design better than mine.


But to conteract some of the arodynamic losses, I designed a canopy for mine too.


And I do have a head start on the 2009 model