1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

How does one know if you get or do not get ethanol E10 crap fuel?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by fcc, Jun 16, 2008.

  1. fcc

    fcc New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    245
    4
    0
    Location:
    Nashua NH
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    In a different thread a few days ago a fellow member was lamenting how
    he was caught in a hail storm. He also mentioned that his gas mileage
    was pathetic due to using "ethanol E10 crap fuel because it was cheaper."

    How does one know for sure they are not buying this crap fuel versus
    regular gasonline?

    I seem to remember seeing little stickers on some gas station pumps stating
    something about ethanol but I cannot remember it. I will simply have to do
    some research or ask around here. How do you know what you are pumping
    into your car does not contain 10% ethanol? (I assume that is what E10 stands
    for.)

    thanks.
     
  2. jelloslug

    jelloslug It buffed right out!

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    813
    54
    0
    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    They are required by law to post it on the pump if it's E10.
     
  3. Marlin

    Marlin New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2005
    1,407
    10
    0
    Location:
    Bucks County, PA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    And undoubtably in Nashua, NH, they are required by law to sell E10, and you wouldn't be able to find any other kind. Ethanol is added to oxygenate the gas to reduce pollution. A couple of years ago they were required to use MTBE instead for the same purpose, but that was banned due ground water contamination. Now the government requires the refineries to add Ethanol instead of MTBE.

    Regardless of what people seem to think, E10 is not some conspiracy between the oil companies and GM. Instead it is the result of government regulation.
     
  4. fcc

    fcc New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    245
    4
    0
    Location:
    Nashua NH
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Hm. i suppose this then means I will never be able to maximize my mileage by getting
    non ethanol gas and doomed to get a 45ish MPG average :-(

    heh doomed to get 45 MPG. sounds funny in a way considering what everyone
    else gets. not to mention the car does not have 1000 miles on it yet....
    so lets see what happens and maybe there is a place over the border or in a different
    county where i can gas up.. hmm. time to google.
     
  5. MO Dale

    MO Dale Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2007
    43
    0
    0
    Location:
    Jefferson City, MO
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Don't give up. It just takes time and patience. Missouri requires 10% ethanol, too, but it's possible to get better mileage. I used to hover around 43-44mpg, but have become more aware of my driving and improved the mileage. The warmer weather has certainly helped, and more miles on the car should bring additional mpg. My Prius has 10,600 miles. I filled up tonight and had my first 500 mile tank! One pip remaining, not flashing. Took 9.318 gallons. Here's a pic.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. brad_rules_man

    brad_rules_man Hybrid electric revolutionizer

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2005
    716
    76
    0
    Location:
    Effingham
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I get worse mileage than others because of e10. It is a law in Illinois too. I'm not sure where it isn't a law anymore.. Anyways I have a few reasons for not liking it. I live in a farming community where it equals $ for them, so they bought into it real quick. However all but the newest plants use extreme amounts of water. Believe it or not, water is the world's most precious and limited commodity. (Drinking water anyways.) I also have heard some weird shady things being done with the corn that didn't use to happen, especially the government subsidy corn.
     
  7. removeum

    removeum Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2004
    407
    0
    0
    Location:
    El Paso, TX
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    :cool:Your Prius only has 1,000.0 miles on it! Gee the motor is not even broken-in yet. You will see a mileage increase after 5,000 to 10,000 miles. You vill see the steady increase. Are you doing jackrabbit starts?
     
  8. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,037
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Physical chemistry says that E10 causes a 3% decrease in MPGs. It cleans our air and our engines, and it's not worth getting bent out of shape about it.
     
  9. mrblaise

    mrblaise Go Lakers!!

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    2,248
    525
    19
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Sorry to the some here, but I'm one who believes that corn is food ... not fuel.
     
  10. dbcassidy

    dbcassidy Toyota Hybrid Nation, 8 Million Strong

    Joined:
    May 13, 2008
    1,581
    290
    3
    Location:
    Middlesex County, MA
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    If you purchase your gasoline in Merrimack, Hillsborough, Rockingham and / or Strafford counties it is EPA mandated that you receive E10.
    A Closer Look at Methyl tertiary-Butyl Ether (MtBE) in Reformulated Gasoline

    I've been filling up with conventional gas when I travel through Strafford or Carroll counties.
     
  11. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2006
    19,011
    4,080
    50
    Location:
    Grass Valley, CA.
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A

    Learn how to drive better and choose a different route if need be. :)

    Great milage on fuel with less energy is indeed possible. Granted this one took a lot of work, yet I can easily get 57mpg on my uphill/downhill commute to my 2nd job and 53mpg on the flat/freeway commute to my first job.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. fcc

    fcc New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    245
    4
    0
    Location:
    Nashua NH
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Nope. I never drove like that even in normal cars. On this tank of gas
    I am averaging 49 MPG so each fill of the tank I am improving. Just disappointed
    that I am not getting that additional boost from "real" gas is all.

    thank you for the advice. I drive like a grandma! cruise control is used
    very often when I do not feel like trying to much.
     
  13. fcc

    fcc New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    245
    4
    0
    Location:
    Nashua NH
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    practice should indeed improve my MPG! thanks for the tips.
     
  14. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,037
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I agree completely. We should be getting our fuel ethanol from Brazil, where they make it from sugar cane, and, when the processes are developed, from waste cellulose. If you're angry about our present food-for-fuel welfare-for-agribusiness ethanol situation, contact your congresspeople and ask them to end corn price supports and the $0.54 per gallon import tax on fuel ethanol.

    In the meantime E10 is a reality in all large US cities to reduce air pollution. It would be counterproductive in every way to drive 25 miles out of your way to buy straight gasoline instead.
     
  15. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    i have ALWAYS used E-10 with exception of one fillup in Montana 4 years ago. the real difference in mileage will be 1-2 mpg...so being "doomed to 45 mpg" is not all bad... with your driving style, you could move to an area that does not have E-10 (that area is shrinking daily btw) and be in the "privileged 46½ mpg" crowd...
     
  16. mrblaise

    mrblaise Go Lakers!!

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    2,248
    525
    19
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I agree. I also believe that we have not yet seen the economic effects of using food for fuel. Corn is a very basic commodity and additive in thousands of products. Watch your grocery store prices rise dramatically in the next six months. They already have; and it's going to get much much worse.


     
  17. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,979
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Most of the corn grown in the US is not edible. It tastes like chalk if you try to eat it. It must be "processed" to become food. They first extract the corn syrup (used as sweetener in almost all food sold in the US and Canada, including soda etc - check the content labels on the food you buy). What is left (called the "mash") is either:
    1. Fed to cattle (for a max. of 6 weeks - it will kill them if fed to them for longer than that).
    2. Used to make ethanol. The mash left over from that is then fed to cattle. Ditto on the length of time you can do it.

    Ethanol with "up to 10% ethyl alcohol" will decrease your mileage about 3% as stated above. So you would get 48 instead of 50 MPG. Good luck honestly attributing such a small decrease to the alcohol! There are far more effective contributors to poor mileage.
    This is really the only downside to ethanol fuel (once the fuel systems storing, transporting, and using it are set up properly).

    The upside is:
    1. Any water that gets into your fuel will be burned in the engine without causing a problem.
    2. You will not need "gasline antifreeze" (northern users only, of course).
    3. The engine will last longer as ethanol tends to burn much cleaner than "normal" gasoline.
    4. You will be keeping more of your money in your country (in essence finally paying your farmers a reasonable amount of money for the hard work they do).

    While many would like to blame ethanol for the "food shortage" or rise in prices of food worldwide, this is pure propaganda. The rise in prices is caused by demand vs supply. The demand has increased due to population growth (the price increase isn't seen until it hits the ceiling of supply). The decrease in supply has been partially caused by the increase in fuel prices (for planting etc. - some farms were caught in a low capital status so couldn't afford to plant large volumes of crops this year). "Global warming" can also take some of the blame as it has caused some major crop failures around the world.

    In conclusion, please don't try to attribute simple blame to complex situations!
     
  18. GatorJZ

    GatorJZ Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2008
    285
    17
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
  19. mrblaise

    mrblaise Go Lakers!!

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    2,248
    525
    19
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Sorry, but I disagree. This is not pure propaganda. Over 20% of the corn planted in the U.S. is used for ethanol. That means that less farmland is being used to grow crops. Therefore prices for other farm grown commodities will naturally rise. As the ethanol craze grows, because of unwillingness to drill to find our own resources because of militant greenies, this situation will only get worse. Your food bills will rise to amounts not yet seen. I've already noticed the difference in prices of goods such as cereals, sodas, etc that use corn and its derivatives. I'm sure the rest of you have as well. I agree that this is a complex situation and ethanol is but a small portion of the dilemma. However, it will affect our lives and in fact, already has.

    The real problem is that most of the oil producing countries have no other resources besides oil. If oil was no longer on the market or necessary for the world's uses. The world economy would crumble. Hence, the reason why there is no global rush to find alternatives.

     
  20. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I like totally get E10 man.

    I also get about 4.3L/100km (57mpg) on it.