Will all oil disappear?

:wave: More information please.

Is there a news article or press release that this came from? After all, this is the "Prius & Hybrid News" forum.

Thanks.

 

Doing my part to reduce consumption -- driving my Prius and voting in November are two ways I plan to reduce oil consumption. I can't ask anyone to do something I can't do for myself.

 

Sorry Rick but I have no option but to call BULL SH!T.
The USA is the largest developed country so it may produce the lions share of innovations but I think you might find it isn't any more prolific per capita than any other developed country. Tell me where did the images from Apollo 11 first hit the earth for distribution around the globe? No, we didn't put people on the moon but how many people live there today? We have been busy with innovations in water conservation, cancer research energy conservation, food production and Nanotechnology.

More independent minded my arse, I guess attacking a country that supplies you with oil it thinking outside the square. I think you might give credit to American companies for ideas developed in other countries too. I don't see the American system encouraging innovation more than any other.
Look at the auto industry, if it wasn't for government regulation you would all still be driving 2 valve push-rod V8s with carburettors and points ignition.
This is the attitude that makes us outside the USA laugh at Americans. I never feel like where I live is over regulated either, I feel I live where I am safe and free from high levels of crime and corruption. Excluding the free thinking bunch on PC, I find Americans mostly think inside the box, they are easy for corporations to manipulate and more sheep like than most of the world. All flag waving blindly towing the government or corporate line. Why are trucks so popular there? How is McDonalds so big? quality? right! You want to see free thinkers? France has it all over you. Go stand in a cue at Disneyland and tell me Americans are free thinkers.

Although my reply was written in a sarcastic tone I personally can not see how regulation in one area leads to regulation in an unrelated area but Americans let gun lobbies feed them this crap each time gun regulation is mentioned and now the drivers of SUVs are doing the same. It's hilarious.
Sorry this is off topic.

 

They need to stop printing money. M2 is growing at 6% MZM is about 15%. Inflation is not the increase in price it is the expansion of the money supply which devalues our fiat currency. I will respectfully disagree with you on Lieberman. He wants cap and trade.

I must say I was surprised by the number of greenies who are against this, I would have thought the opposite on this forums. Shows ya how much I must understand.

About the refiners. Right now, today the refiners are NOT making squat. It is all about the producers. The big oil would love the taxpayer to buy the refineries from them. The guys who do nothing but refine (like Valero) have so so profits right now. That is why their stocks are not taking off. Big oil has no choice but keep the not so profitable refineries going because nobody wants oil but we all want the finished products. This congressman is probably a lawyer, no offense.

 

Do we actually know who this congressman is? Or, what he actually said? There's been no reference in this thread. For all we know, he could be the tooth fairy.

Fraser - Do us all a favor, and give us an actual reference to what we're talking about here.

 

I agree with all that you said ... except for "standard of living."

I never saw any places like Gary, IN ... Detroit, MI ... Bakersfield, CA ... Compton, CA ... (insert your own sh!thole place here) ANYWHERE in the Netherlands, Finland, Denmark, Belgium, Switzerland, or Germany. In fact, the worst places I saw in Germany were -- you got it -- American military installations.

I think a few of those Euro folks have us beat on "standard of living" as a whole ...

 

I hate to tow a republican line here, but we're not going to conserve our way out of this either. There simply isn't enough energy production in this country, so every day we see more of our nation's wealth go overseas (and to Iraq, but that's another sore-spot entirely.). I respectfully disagree. We need to drill more while we research alternatives.

Democrats are supposed to be advocates for the poor and middle class, and right now those people can't afford to eat or drive to work. Sorry, poor people can't eat conservation. Sadly, conservation isn't going to help anyone find a job in this miserable Bush economy either. So the broke, jobless, and hungry look to us for answers, and we're going to tell them to "conserve more"? Sorry, I couldn't say that to anyone with a straight face.

We are failing our base constituency, and the republicans will be more than happy to lure those voters away by promising a quick return to cheaper food and oil. Go take another look at your outrageous monthly gas, electric, fuel, and grocery bills, then think again about what our party's focus should be.

 

Which would be true Jay, but the missing link here, is that the US doesn't own the oil, talking about more drilling in the US does not mean the oil stays here, it just becomes part of the world supply, and with the expected amount from the extra drilling, if we can force the oil companies to drill, is not going to make much of a difference on prices.

The oil and the drilling involved is NOT US GOVERNMENT, its the oil companies, they can drill or NOT drill, its their choice, all we are talking about is leases, it is extremely likely that the oil companies won't even consider drilling now, but buying leases at low prices and today's rates, yeah why not. Still doesn't mean that any drilling in those leases will happen now or even a few years from now.

And on top of the whole thing, why doesn't Bush show the way, rescind the Bush Presidential Ban on drilling, if that was really the goal.

 

Problem is there's no viable alternatives, and no one's working on finding a viable alternative, and if oil COULD come back down below $3 ... no one could FORCE research, either because, the oil lobby wouldn't sponser it, or because you couldn't get tax revenue diverted to it. Nope. It's simply time to pay the piper. Drilling off the arctic, the CA & FL coasts, simpy means you're using up your kid's inheritance ... an emergency that we darn well better leave them, because if we don't, there won't be any goo to make plastic, paint, asphalt, etc out of. Or, sure, use it up with no plan ... let our grandkids pay for our folly.

just like the parents on easter island ... as they chopped down every tree, so they couldn't even escape the desert they created.



.

 

why do we want prices to go back down?
if the price drops, then consumption will go back up.
we need consumption to do gown, and prices to stay high to spur development of alternative energy solutions.
lowering the price will not solve our environmental issues.

 

Jay, your ideas have merit but my second job (stereo equipment) is in a low income area of Fairfield and I can walk outside the door right now and scan the parking lot of the adjacent low-income apartment complex and it's filled with SUVs, trucks, and gas guzzlers in general. These same people come into my shop to purchase stereo equipment as well as other crap they brag about when they come into the shop. So a level of conservation can even be exercised by these people. Yes it would be nice to sell fuel in a tiered system like we do with electricity so that those who conserve benefit twice but that is not currently possible. Is there something stopping these people from selling their Expedition and purchasing a 1990 Honda Civic besides pride and image concerns? Please keep in mind I grew up with drug addicts who lived off welfare and social security so I am VERY familiar with low income families.

I never said that conservation alone will get us out of this mess but no one can argue that it would not be highly beneficial.

 

A better plan would be to nationalize drilling rights to the all the water and land already approved for oil drilling, but left unexplored by the oil companies who are holding on to them just to boost their stock prices.

And a still better plan would be to make it easier for American shipyards to build state-of-the-art oil drilling ships--that's where the biggest bottleneck is.

 

Ahhhh. But there are viable alternatives. The ultimate flex-fuel vehicle is an electric one. It can be powered from a variety of sources (coal, natural gas, nuclear, hydro, solar, wind, geothermal, biomass, etc.) All of our electricity is produced domestically, from nearly all domestic sources. Roughly 60% of the petroleum we use is for fuel for vehicles. Migrate the ground transportation infrastructure off oil - and that will leave plenty of petroleum for air travel, military, agriculture, plastics, etc. Of course the oil companies (and OPEC, for that matter) wouldn't like this. But it would be a very good thing for the country.

More drilling is not the solution. It will only prolong the profits for the oil companies, and the pain for the consumer.

The migration to EV's won't happen overnight. But I can't think of anything that could make it happen quicker that the current situation where we've got an extended (perhaps indefinite) period of >$100/barrel oil.

Also, it can't hurt to let the auto makers know that you won't buy another automobile unless it comes with a plug. You can do that here:
Plug In America - Promoting Plug-in Cars for a Better America

 

It looks like Andy Grove (former CEO of Intel) agrees, from his statements in this interview, published June 30th:

A common topic of debate in the threads in these forums has been the role that government should play in promoting alternative energy technologies. Grove commented on that as well.

The entire article is available here:
washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

this link might work better:
washingtonpost.com

 

To all those that say there are no viable alternatives, I suggest you get your head out of the sand. While the poor can't eat conservation, there are lots of jobs to be had in the "green economy". Conservation doesn't mean going back to the cave either. Those of us who use PV solar realized early on that we could live quite well using a great deal less electricity.

As for alternatives, what we need is leadership and policy that encourages conservation and alternatives. I have posted here ad infinitum regarding the idea of plug in hybrids and their potential contribution to the grid. I have also posted thousands of words about the viability of solar. The simple fact is that PV solar can be competitive with grid if you calculate the costs of Nuclear or Coal. (The real costs, not just the cost up front)

We have to get past the idea that we in the west are entitled to cheap energy. We created it carefully and use it wisely. The combination of peak oil, and climate change makes this an imperitive.

Icarus