TheStreet article "why you shouldn't buy a hybrid"

miscrms · Jun 18, 2008

Carbot said: ↑

Here are some "real world" facts that the goof-ball who wrote the article could have used. maybe he wouldn't have come off looking so uninformed about what's really happening. I have posted this on two other Hybrid sites to get the word out.

My '04 Prius turned 200,000 miles on 6/12/08. I bought it on 1/15/04.

Has anyone else out there got that many miles on one?

I am self employed and use the car for both business and personal use. I do not baby it for mileage, but estimate that over the life (so far) of the car I have averaged around 47-48 true mpg. I have kept a record of every mile driven and every ounce of gas that I have used, and will, when I have time, post a "lifetime" average.

I am in and out of it around 30 times a day, leaving it in "ready" mode all day some days.

Here is a quick summary of everything that I have ever fixed or replaced on the car. The upholstery is holding up very well, even though I wear jeans most of the time, which are kind of an abrasive material. I have worn a hole through the floor mat and into the carpet where my right foot sits. The "damper" on the top clamshell glove box gave up long ago, because I open that around 30-40 times a day too. The plastic cover over the accessory power outlet has broken off.

All of the above can be expected in a car that has seen the heavy use that mine has.

Now for the FEW things I have replaced. 12volt battery---130,000 miles. serpentine belt/plugs/water pump---155,000 miles. The plugs were still plugging, the belt was still belting, though frayed, and the pump was still pumping, but "weeping". I just replaced it because the belt was off. Just bought my fourth set of replacement tires. Still the ORIGINAL BRAKES. Replaced one key fob battery. I am in the car at least 8 hours a day, sometimes 6 days a week. It is very comfortable. I can make a U turn on a residential street. Parking is a breeze. Plenty of storage nooks for my "office supplies". I use the nav. system all day. The key never leaves my pocket for those 30+ times I get in and out of the car.

Bottom line: I don't know how Toyota knew how to make the perfect car for me and what I do, but they did. Even putting aside the great mileage and the "feel good" aspect of doing the right thing for the planet, it would still be the best car I have ever owned, by far.
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Definately one of the best first posts I have ever read!
Welcome!
Rob

4G63 · Jun 18, 2008

^+1
screw those haters!

icarus · Jun 18, 2008

nerfer said: ↑

That's not true. Even Consumer Reports in their hybrid hype article assumed gas prices of $2/gal for 3 years, then $3/gal for 1 year then $4/gal for the 5th year. Of course, at that time prices were $2.50/gal and they've only gone up since. Over the last year, the raw product for gas has increased faster than gasoline prices themselves, so it's likely gas prices will continue upwards just to take current oil prices into effect. If you look at a chart of gas prices over the last 5 years, you'll see the trend is up. To assume otherwise would take an explanation of why you think the current trend will be broken. There may be some speculation in today's prices, perhaps 15% (pick a number, I used my trendline below), and gas prices could easily have a short-term swing into the mid-$3's, but for year-over-year, the trend is clearly up.

Dropping down to $100/barrel is hardly a tumble, considering that until this January, $100 was considered an improbable ceiling.
I like this argument - "something must happen because people can't tolerate these prices". Or what? Will we stop buying it? Will we go back to whale oil? Will we open up ANWR and magically get as much as we need in a couple months? Will we suddenly shake the sheiks into realizing it hurts us to give them that much money?

High prices are here to stay. The better you protect yourself now, the better you'll be in the future.
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Great information, great post!

As PJ Orourke said once, after flying over Kuwait before the start of the present madness, looking down on all the war machinery, he said "If this is about oil, it would be cheaper to buy it!"

Icarus.

bruceha_2000 · Jun 19, 2008

bgdrewsif said: ↑

BTW I have slowed down to 55-60MPG on the freeways
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I suspect this is a typo, but it does actually represent my reality. When I slow down to 55 MPH, my mileage goes to 55-60 MPG

DeadPhish · Jun 19, 2008

Carbot said: ↑

Here are some "real world" facts that the goof-ball who wrote the article could have used. maybe he wouldn't have come off looking so uninformed about what's really happening. I have posted this on two other Hybrid sites to get the word out.

My '04 Prius turned 200,000 miles on 6/12/08. I bought it on 1/15/04.

Has anyone else out there got that many miles on one?

I am self employed and use the car for both business and personal use. I do not baby it for mileage, but estimate that over the life (so far) of the car I have averaged around 47-48 true mpg. I have kept a record of every mile driven and every ounce of gas that I have used, and will, when I have time, post a "lifetime" average.

I am in and out of it around 30 times a day, leaving it in "ready" mode all day some days.

Here is a quick summary of everything that I have ever fixed or replaced on the car. The upholstery is holding up very well, even though I wear jeans most of the time, which are kind of an abrasive material. I have worn a hole through the floor mat and into the carpet where my right foot sits. The "damper" on the top clamshell glove box gave up long ago, because I open that around 30-40 times a day too. The plastic cover over the accessory power outlet has broken off.

All of the above can be expected in a car that has seen the heavy use that mine has.

Now for the FEW things I have replaced. 12volt battery---130,000 miles. serpentine belt/plugs/water pump---155,000 miles. The plugs were still plugging, the belt was still belting, though frayed, and the pump was still pumping, but "weeping". I just replaced it because the belt was off. Just bought my fourth set of replacement tires. Still the ORIGINAL BRAKES. Replaced one key fob battery. I am in the car at least 8 hours a day, sometimes 6 days a week. It is very comfortable. I can make a U turn on a residential street. Parking is a breeze. Plenty of storage nooks for my "office supplies". I use the nav. system all day. The key never leaves my pocket for those 30+ times I get in and out of the car.

Bottom line: I don't know how Toyota knew how to make the perfect car for me and what I do, but they did. Even putting aside the great mileage and the "feel good" aspect of doing the right thing for the planet, it would still be the best car I have ever owned, by far.
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My hero...:yo:. Actually this is Carbot2. Carbot1 was a Gen1.

resoh02 · Jun 20, 2008

cjzito said: ↑

Just published today in TheStreet, an article by Brian Walker entitled "Why You Shouldn't Buy a Hybrid Car". Holy moly, is this guy one-sided, neglecting to mention many of the facts counter to his own arguments. Typical of the media these days. They get paid to write a juicy article -- just leave the actual facts and analysis up to the reader.

Why You Shouldn't Buy a Hybrid Car - TheStreet.com

So I emailed him back the following points:

1. People ARE helping the environment when they buy a hybrid, which may be reason enough for someone to buy a hybrid. Global Warming is a scientifically proven phenomonon. The amount of fault placed on human development can be debated (there were periods of global warming before there were humans), but it is proven that certain gaseous emissions do enhance global warming. Pound for pound, mile for mile, hybrid vehicles do emit significantly fewer tons of greenhouse gases. You neglected to mention that the Prius puts out only 4 tons (from the EPA website) annually. That's signifantly less than all other vehicles of the same size.

2. Your economic analysis of cost of ownership is flawed in that you assume the price of gas will remain at $4.00/gallon over the next decade or so. I guarantee that won't happen. I wouldn't be surprised to see $6.00/gallon by summer 2009, or $8.00/gallon by the summer of 2010. I'm surprised that you didn't mention this, but there have been concerns over the cost of future battery replacement. However, this argument is beginning to fall apart as thousands of prius owners have now gone over 100,000 miles without any battery problems. A fleet of Prius taxis in Vancouver have gone over 250,000 miles without any battery problems. Toyota has repeatedly voiced that if there ever is a battery issue with a Prius, that the solution is usually an inexpensive replacement of just a few cells, not the entire array of cells.

3. Even at highway speeds, the Prius has significantly better MPG than a similar sized conventional vehicle. Compare the Prius 45mpg versus the non-hybrid Camry (4 cyl) at 31mpg highway. Both cars have nearly identical total interior volume and total propulsion power. Yes, at highway speeds the engine is running continuously, but the Prius benefits greatly from the more aerodynamic shape.

4. Except for the Prius, it is true that hybrids today are heavier than their non-hybrid counterparts. But that doesn't have to be. The Prius can get by with a smaller, lighter engine since the electric motor can supplement power when needed. Unfortunately, automakers are presently feeding the American appetite for speed and power by keeping the same heavy, powerful engines and adding on the hybrid components, thus adding overall weight. I think this trend will reverse itself in the future. Incidentally, there are weight savings in many of the hybrid transmission and auxiliary components. And, in the future, all hybrid batteries will be even lighter with the transition to Lithium Ion chemistry.

5. Yes, people only keep a car for 5 years on average. But the car isn't thrown away, it is usually passed on as a used car to another buyer. Hybrids have retained their resale value better than their counterparts. So, looking only at fuel savings, you don't recoup the "hybrid cost", but you do recoup most of it when you re-sell it.

6. There are other reasons to buy a hybrid. They are generally quieter and a much smoother ride with their CVT (continuously variable transmission). Maintenance costs are actually lower. (less brake wear, less engine wear, simpler transmission, no belts to replace, more reliable auxiliary components). They are generally loaded with cutting-edge technology (keyless entry, rear view camera) that you find only in high-end vehicles. Many people like these features. Personally, I achieve an average of 51mpg in my Prius. But even if it were 10mpg lower, I would have bought the car due to these other attributes.
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I get tired of people putting down $justification for the fuel savings and how long will it take for return on investment for the hybrid. What ROI do you get when buy the many gas hogs on the market. NONE. Check out what a 2 year old Chevy Trailblazer is worth, that sold for 30k. We need to get off of foreign oil period, if we don't it won't be long and this won't be the free USA of today. Think if they shut off our oil, it would bring this country to its knees. Its hard to name something that has oil in it. Think about it.

Carbot · Jun 21, 2008

I am a private process server. Some states do not have them, and a lot of people don't even know what they are. I do privately, what Sheriff's in some states and High Constables in other states do. I serve warrants. subpoena's, notices, motions for judgment and numerous other court documents. I am paid by attorneys.

My car is black with very dark tinted windows. Very ominous looking if it weren't a Prius. It is sort of my private joke because the work is usually pretty routine, but most people think it is not.

TheStreet article "why you shouldn't buy a hybrid"

miscrms Plug Envious Member

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TheStreet article "why you shouldn't buy a hybrid"

miscrms Plug Envious Member

4G63 I quit boosting

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