Jetta TDI vs. Prius, San Francisco on a tank?

1 full second in 0-60 is quite large if the power/tq continue to grow and the gearing is set up right. I agree, nothing to laugh at.

 

So any actual results in for the test?

I will find it interesting to see when they actually test the TDi for real life conditions, and an auto as well. The majority of folks don't use a stick shift for their commute.

 

Hi All,

Oops. Yea, it says they think it will be mid 8 second range, but do not give a number.

 

From what I can see form VW UK site is that the 2.0 TDI 140PS model is rated at 9.7s by them for the 0-62 MPH. That is the non DPF model as far as I can tell.

So I would say best would be to see what it actually does when tested locally. I would especially like to see the DSG model tested, as it is more likely to fit most folks needs (being auto).

 

You're right, I was working from memory and used the Golf number instead of the Jetta. Same engine but heavier car. You are correct that the UK spec 140 PS TDI doesn't have a DPF or the US spec NOx catalyist.

140 PS TDI from VW UK:
Model ------ (Manual / DSG)
Golf ------------ 9.3 / 9.3
Jetta ----------- 9.7 / 9.7
Wagon ---------- 9.7 / 9.7

If you notice the times for the 6-speed manual are the same as the 6-speed DSG. Some of the gasoline engines are listed as having quicker 0-100 km times with the DSG.

I'll be interested to see what the 0-60 times are for the new TDI but more interested in top gear 50-70 times. To me passing on 2 lane roads is way more important that dragstrip launches.

 

From TDIclub.com the mileage results were 50.5 mpg for the TDI and 48.2 for the Prius. It says that they drove the speed limit the whole way.

Freeway driving is real life conditions for quite a few people. For example, I've had a 130 to 170 mile highway commute for the last year. That is 90% highway, 10% city.

BTW, they did test the auto. The Jetta "automatic" is a 6-speed DSG which is a manual with a computer controlled clutch. You can operate it in full auto, sport auto, or full manual mode.

 

Sounds fairly reasonable to me as I make that drive once a year. I usually do it in the winter and hit some snowy areas though.


I still think they should have had someone a bit less biased drive the Prius.

 

Did they say how they measured the fuel consumption?

I commute proobably 70% freeway (although the prius does most of the errand runs so 505/50 for mine), the problem is my 50% freeway is durign peak hours where it is hardly a steady speed. Most of the time it varies quite a lot in speed as the traffic speeds up and slows down. Hardly compareble to a nice road trip liek what they did. This unfritunately is the case for most freeway driving in metro areas these days, especially during commute times.

Yep, I know the DSG, yet I have also heard that folks can't get the same economy or perfromance with them than the stick (might just be user error??).

 

I keep seeing these articals: xxx car beats Prius on hiway test. Lets see: Best milage for xxxcar is hi-way and stick, worst milage for Prius is Hi-way, mountains and inexperienced driver. I agree these test are bogus- lets drive these cars from Auburn to Everett at 7AM, tool around downtown Seattle for an hour, and then see whom comes out on top. In other words, any test is biased unless it's hybrid vs hybrid, mixed driving, stop and go. The test is only valid if you drive from Auburn to San Francisco, and no other conclusion can be drawn.

 

And to be really fair about it, although diesel fuel has about 20% more energy per gallon, it also costs about 15% more than gasoline. They need to measure the distance traveled vs. the cost to fill the tank in the 1st place. And of course going the speed limit on the freeway is going to put the Prius at a disadvantage. On a recent trip to Denver from Spokane (plenty of ups and downs), I got 56 mpg on the MFD (although I believe it was really only 54 mpg by calculation) by keeping the speed nearer to 60 mph, rather than 70 or 75 mph.

Dave M.

 

If the Prius got whomped, in this economy test, then I think we'd be seeing an influx of uppity trolls.

 

From Auburn VWs myspace page;

So, the TDI went 733 miles at 50.5mpg, using ~14.51 gallons of diesel. The Prius was running at 47mpg. Over the same 733 miles, it would have used 15.59 gallons.

Reported MPG:
'09 Jetta TDI: 50.5
Toyota Prius: 47

Gallons Used (for 733 miles):
'09 Jetta TDI: 14.51
Toyota Prius: 15.59

Crude Oil Consumed:
'09 Jetta TDI: 15.96 gal
Toyota Prius: 14.87 gal

Fuel Costs:
'09 Jetta TDI: $68.49 @ $4.72/gallon US average
Toyota Prius: $64.07 @ $4.11/gallon US average

CO2 Emitted:
'09 Jetta TDI: 146.37kg
Toyota Prius: 137.05kg

CO Emitted:
'09 Jetta TDI: 293.2g
Toyota Prius: 73.3g

NOx Emitted:
'09 Jetta TDI: 36.65g
Toyota Prius: 7.33g

NMOG Emitted:
'09 Jetta TDI: 8.796g
Toyota Prius: 6.597g

Even under the test conditions that most benefit the TDI, still looks like a clean win for the Prius to me.

Rob

 

Rob, was all that based on the emissions specs for the '09 Jetta TDI?

Thanks for doing the work on that one.

Notice how they rated the Prius on engine only HP/TQ? Wth?

 

Yup, '09 from the standard driving cycle data here:
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad/cert/pcldtmdv/2009/volkswagen_pc_a0070271_2d0_l2_diesel.pdf
as posted here:
http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/49909-2009-vw-jetta-tdi-emissions-results.html

Yeah, I thought that was a little desperate. Those are the specs from the ICE alone. The electric motor is rated for another 67hp and 295 ftlbs of torque (although the controller never lets you have that much so you don't snap your half shafts )

Luckily for Auburn they haven't accepted my myspace friend request yet

Rob

 

Hahaha get signed up and stick em with the facts. :rockon:

Thnaks again for doing the legwork and calcs.

 

Highway only tests don't represent real-world driving.

So, even that measure makes the diesel look bad.

.

 

Thank you for your sarcastic and misinformed response.

I feel you have likely made some assumptions on where I stand. I believe a Prius's performance in a straight line is adequate. I believe they went overboard in the new TDI to please the most amount of Americans. And frankly, I'd rather have adequate. I was only pointing out that a fairer comparison would have been between two cars with similar performance abilities. A new common rail TDI with a smaller displacement ~100hp/160lb. ft. engine is a fairer comparison to a Prius and likely is more efficient than its bigger brother tested here.

0-60 probably stands out as one of the Prius's better performance measurements.
0-60 is consistantly a diesel's worst area.

As has been said, you don't drive the 0-60 time. You drive the 50-70 and 30-60 times.

I have driven both cars. There is no comparison in the performance category.

The test is bogus for other reasons that have been pointed out. Definitely favored the diesel in terms of route. I do not expect the new Jetta to routinely get 50+ in mixed driving, not to mention that it's still a long way away in every emission category but CO2. They are just such different cars that I don't know why people think they are in direct competition.

Oh, btw, I know that .2 = 1/5, but thank you.

 

I agree the test is bogus and was hardly done to obtain any accurate numbers.

I however disagree with a few things when it comes to performance. The Prius was faster than the old 1.9TDi in 2006 (the DSG model), so I hardly think a 100HP diesel will cut it in the heavier new model Jetta.

Also note that the problem is that Turbo Diesels feels faster than they really are, while the Prius is actually faster than it feels.

Case in point: 45-65 MPH runs
Prius 6.4s, Prius Touring 6.2s
06 Jetta TDi DSG 7.4s
2.5 Jetta DSG 6.0s (and the 2.0 TDi will have a hard time being faster than that)
Tested by CR, but when you go to actual tests done scientifically by numerous mags you will find that the same results over and over again. So lets see how the 09 TDi measures up and the coming 2010 Prius.

I have driven numerous TDs by BMW, Audi, LR, etc and know them better than most folks. They are highly overrated in the US as they have not been here. Make no mistake they have their place and function, but a lot of people seem to overestimate their actual capability.

The reality of the matter is that a TD that provides the same real world performance as it's normal aspirated gas counterpart, will have a real hard time delivering more than 30% better fuel economy (of which 15% is the energy in the fuel).

Another hidden fact is that a forced induction gas engine can easily produce more TQ than a TD. However most manufacturers limit the TQ output of the gas engine to increase lifetime of the drivetrain, reduce fuel consumption, etc. The reason why almost all diesels sold now are turbo charged is to give it reasonable performance, and manufacturers are forced to produce very high TQ numbers as the diesel engine does not have the same engine RPM range as the gasser. With a gas engine they can produce less TQ, less train on the drivetrain and still get the desired performance.

And yes they are 2 very different cars. I like the feel and ride of the Jetta much better than the Prius, but I like the utility of the Prius much more than the Jetta.

People need to stop "web driving" and/or bashing and get what they think suites their needs/wants best, either option is a lot better than the run of the full size SUV a lot have picked in the past.

 

test results are suspicious. i will be taking the same drive (well actually just under halfway AND only one way going down... be taking the Oregon Coast back up) Wednesday... it will be with a VERY FULLY LOADED Pri. i will advise what my mileage is and i will be driving the speed limit as well...(actually probably doing 60 mph most of the way... but we will see)

i will post my "half results here"....i expect to get better gas mileage as i will be probably driving slower... no less than 60 mph...i will have enough gear for a week of camping for 3...(hopefully, i can fit it in...) so we shall see

 

why do people only care about one thing and one thing only... saving gas? just look at the emissions and see why the prius is the best option