something's not right

Good enough for me.

I didn't know what to make of your response. The humor truly failed me.

I think your "debate" points fail to find any hold with me, as well. Still, in the midst of what I would call "rants," I thought I saw someone asking some valid questions. I hope you stay around long enough to read, learn and share some things of value.

 

Mfarmer1; I would guess your Prius will not be as much fun as your '68 Cougar. Mine was a '67, XR7, 390ci, Holley 4 barrell, Dan Gurney racing pkg, Lime Frost ext., black leather int., wide ovals, after market Mallory capacitive discharge ignition, automatic C4 trans, linkage and carb fine tuned at speed shop on dynamometor, no hesitation shifting, laid rubber in all 3 gears, positraction, 17mpg w/cc on turnpike, <7mpg around town when testosteron was flowing. Loved many of my other vehicles, but I doubt that I'll ever enjoy driving another car like I did the XR7. Gee! Did she handle for the days technology. Oh! to be young, naive and invincible again. Do the headlight covers still go down, the sequential taillights still work, and when does your fuel light come on? I was bound and determined to find out. Mine came on right after I ran out of gas, out in the country, before cell phones. And lucky to get 7000-8000 miles on a set of tires. But I lover her. I'm sure neither you nor I will ever fell that way about our Prius'. Hope you find the answers and/or the car you're looking for, or whatever you are looking for.

 

Americans consume about 7 billion barrels a year (over 3 times what China consumes). That works out to about 19 years by my calculation.

Building a refinery takes about 10 years regardless of pointless permits, regulations etc, imposed by the government (as you see it) because there are a lot of other parties- like lenders, insurers etc- that impose requirements too (lenders hate refinery fires and insurers hate workers comp claims or claims from communities impacted by refinery fires and explosions). And simply planning one for a particular site with the placement of equipment, rail lines, supply lines, computer controls, etc isn't that quick a process. It took almost 4 years just to expand the refinery I drive through every day including planning and construction (the permits, the public hearings, the EIS etc were done concurrently and took about 2 years). 15 years most of our then 180 refineries were not owned by the major oil companies. The remaining 160 or so are almost all owned by the majors now. Most of the remaining independent refineries are for sale since the squeeze between what the majors are getting for their oil and what we drivers are willing to pay has them losing money.

The other point is that you seem to believe those who say that we would have all the refineries we need, and more, if the environmentalists would just get out of the way. Every refinery and refinery expansion proposed since 1975 has been approved.

Yucca Mountain is the site DOE proposed to use to store all of the country's nuclear waste. Controversial, certainly, and the Sierra Club is against it. The major objections seem to be connected to it being just one site for all waste storage (security-wise not so wise), transportation issues (probably overblown), the safety issue (it is not in a significant earthquake or volcanic zone), and a distrust of the Dept of Energy (probably not overblown). But the lack of this storage site hasn't caused the NRC to turn down any nuclear plants that I know of.

 

Oh, I've been accused of worse things here than not reading the manual. Check Fred's House of Politics. I consider the source. Actually, I have read it, cover to cover. As for long trips, we were entirely comfortable almost all the way, Only on the last day, driving 330 miles, our backs twinged a bit. But nothing like in our former car.

 

Sometimes, when people begin to realize that maybe the envirowackos are onto something after all, their previous opinions try to assert themselves by lashing out. This phase will pass.

 

Unfortunately this requires study (education in some form). It happened to me and the paradigm shift was complete. The problem is with conceptual mental frames and a person's stubborn resolve to maintain those frames despite evidence to the contrary. They simply need a new story....

 

I find it sad that the terms Conservative and Conservation are unrelated today. You would think a "liberal" would want to drill in protected areas. Just goes to show how much stock you should put in labels I guess – especially after the last eight years.

 

The envirowacko forum is even worse. They'll have a fit if you flush your toilet every time you use it, shower for over 8 minutes or live in a single family home. It's a smelly world they want.

 

Hi mfarmer1,

I have scanned through this, and may have missed some people telling you these things. But in case not, here goes.

The Prius gas peddle is not a throttle peddle. There is no linkage to a butterfly valve on the engine from the Prius gas peddle. So, it works much more like a mathematical accellerator, but with some fuzzy logic (engineering term, do not go wacko about the name!, look it up if your not familiar). Push on the peddle, the car accellerates. Keep it down, and the car keeps accellerating. Its just the computer seeing a peddle down, and looking at the speed, and says "driver wants to go faster". Pull back just a little, like a traditional car, and the Prius stays ready to accellerate (and it uses allot more gas just to stay ready). That is, it does not shift in overdrive. This is unlike cars with mechanical throttle pedal linkages. Where one better keep the peddle most of the way down, or else the car slows down. In the Prius, you can tell the computer to go into cruise economy once your up to speed, by pulling way back on the peddle. The car wont slow down for a good part of this pullback. Once it does start to slow, inch the peddle back up, and the car will cruise along, at whatever speed you want, and use less gas too. Keeping the calf muscles stretched out, or changing heal placement helps with this.

Next is the AC. MAX AC in a Prius is not needed. Part of the economy design is to make the AC more efficient by controlling it with a feedback control loop. Just set it for a temp, and forget. It will automatically go into Max AC, like you have to do manually with other cars, and then as the car cools down, reduce the cooling it does. If you just set it for Max AC, well, your might as well put a parachute on the car. Set the AC for 65, and well, that is just a waste of money, pretty much equivalent to MAX AC. One can actually run the AC at a higher temperature than other cars, and be as comfortable. Because the control system has a humidity sensor, and will dehumidify, which uses less energy. Getting used the to the AC/Heater controls in the Prius was the most difficult thing about learning to operate the car for me.

 

I can't wait until you get your Aptera. Since I read the Aptera forum as well, I'll be looking for your entertaining rant on that forum when you discover how misled you've been about the mpg... The advertised 300mpg is an equivalent mpg under certain conditions. If you're having trouble mastering the mpg of the Prius, you'll have even more trouble with the Aptera.

 

The EPA simulates a route & calculates fuel consumption. Don't blame the manufacturers for the numbers. You can find the test procedure if you are ingterested.

Just after filling up with a short drive to the school, lots of idling in 95F temps with the ac on running the autocross got 28mpg. You have a LONG way to go to beat that.

If you want better fuel economy pump your tires up to at least 44psi. Some members here run in the 60's. If you want really crap economy drop the tp to 30.

When I hear of a pile up on a California interstate I'll think of you & won't feel sorry. Sooner or later you'll be involved in a collision. It only takes one.

 

For what it's worth, here is my Prius history. My first few tanks were around 48-50 mpg. I did notice mileage improvement as the car was 'broken in'. Now, the car has about 13-14k miles, and I currently average about 57 mpg, although I have had tanks with higher numbers. A few months ago, I drove across the Smokies; at speeds of 70-75 mph, climbing the mountains, I averaged 50 mpg. Most of my daily commute is driving through a small town, with many stoplights and small hills, and posted speed limits of 35 and 45 mph. I usually drive the speed limit, occasionally dropping a little below, or sometimes up to 10 mph over when coasting down hills. I never, ever, hold up traffic, though. My 'dipping' happens only when nobody is behind me. I did learn more about the car as I drove it. And yes, although I have been driving for many years also, the Prius is a different animal from most vehicles, and like it or not, learning how the vehicle operates is important to get the best mileage. Unlike you, I did not consider this to be a problem, but an opportunity to learn. I imagine that 100 years ago there were some people who disliked motor vehicles because they didn't drive like a horse-drawn wagon. With new technology, adaptation must be made. And the Prius is a fairly new technological development. Not Earth-shattering, but still, an advancement in technology. 'Learning' how to drive the Prius for efficiency was just a matter of making fairly small adjustments for me; I just paid attention to the car for a little while, and the adjustments actually came fairly naturally. I don't even think about how to drive it now; it comes instinctively. But then again, I was prepared to learn; I knew the Prius would be different from any other vehicle in my experience. This doesn't seem to be something you were prepared for. Although some of my past rides have been performance cars, such as a few Corvettes, and a '69 Mustang drag car, the Prius is the most fun vehicle that I have ever owned. I appreciate it for what it is; a car that is not made for bat-from-hell driving, but for fuel economy for the average commuter, which you do not appear to be. I agree with some of my fellow PriusChatters; I don't think the Prius is suited for your driving habits or personality. The car will probably increase its mpg stats somewhat as it ages a little, but I still don't think it will make the difference that you want. Other than that, the car will not change; the only way to improve mileage then is for the driver to change, which does not seem to be something you are interested in doing. To get the most from your Prius, I would sell it sooner rather than later, while the car is still in very high demand, and you can get top dollar for it. You may even be able to make a profit, and at least you can get something that you will be happier with until your Aptera arrives. Good luck.

 

Birdums: You hit on one of the secrets of happiness, or prehaps I should say satisfaction. "Setting your level of expectation at a reasonable level." Example: On ocassion I get a yearning for a MacDonald's cheeseburger and fries. I've rarely been disappointed, sometimes the fries aren't as fresh as usual. I can spend many times as much at an upscale restaurant for one of their aged angus sirlion burgers and Texas steak fries. The actual quality of the food and service can be much much better then that of MacD's, but I can still walk away disappointed. Just not what I expected. Thanks for reminding us.

 

Mfarmer1, to be honest I couldn't give a flying fig what your fuel consumption is. You don't seem to care about anyone but you so why should anyone give a toss about you?

Secondly the correct term is "I couldn't care less" If you "could care less" that would mean you care more than you could. Quite frankly I am fed up with people writing they could care less when they really mean they could not care less.
No I don't expect you to care about that either.

 

This Mfarmer1 is annoying.

I just joined today beacuse looking to get constructive advice for how to get better gas mileage. I am very sincere with my request.

I have a 2004 Prius and I know I should be getting at least 48 mpg but I average around 38 mpg. I am prepared to make the necessary changes to get my ideal gas mileage. I think Toyota should put a disclaimer on their sticker **mileage depends on user -- or something like that.

So do I have a lemon or will it truly help my mpg to alter my habits and pump up my tires?

One of the members kind of listed the things to do to get better gas mileage. I would greatly appreciate it if someone could outline them all for me here. I do want to see if these techniques will work.

Thank you.

 

mfarmer why don't you buy a scan gauge ($150) and hold 2200-2400 rpm, don't tailgate to minimize use of your brakes as traffic speeds up and slows down, you'll average over 70 mph and about 45 mpg. It sounds like to me you're going in and out of inefficient open throttle conditions just to get there the earliest exact second you can get there.

It isn't all about slowing down, its about how you drive at whatever speed you drive at. I can make the car get 50 mpg at 50 mph or get 75@50 just buy holding the wrong or right engine state.

You are telling the car what to do, its your responsibility to do it right if you want to get the most out of it at whatever speeds you drive at.

 

:welcome: http://priuschat.com/forums/fuel-economy/52356-baby-steps-how-i-changed-my-driving-habits.html :first: The info is one of many excellent threads but I think this may be what you're looking for.

 

MightyHunterGirl, to maximize fuel economy:
- Avoid speeding. Fuel economy in any car falls off rapidly much above 65 MPH.
- Avoid flooring the gas pedal, but do accelerate briskly. The engine is most efficient under substantial load.
- Gliding (no arrows shown on the multi-function “Energy” display screen) is better than coasting,
- Coasting is better than braking,
- Braking is better than stopping.
- Don't use "B" in normal driving (it's there only to avoid riding the brakes on long downgrades).
- Check tire pressures at least monthly, or whenever the average outdoor temperature changes more than about 10’C/20’F.
- Consider using higher tire pressures than those recommended by Toyota. Many drivers use 42/40 PSI front/rear. Anything up to the maximum shown on the side of the tire is safe, but it will change the ride and handling characteristics.

 

dwreed3rd - Thank you. I fear the OP will not appreciate that. He seems a bit demanding of the world, and unfortunately, a little impressed with himself. I don't think he will agree with us. patsparks - That misuse of phrase annoyed me, too. Also, please forgive my lack of paragraphs in my previous post (and this one, too, if it is also lacking). I did make more than one paragraph, for ease in reading, but although I did it twice, it didn't stick. Dear Doctor Evan - you are always so kind and informative, you are still a troll slayer extraordinaire, and here at PriusChat, hotter than Michael Phelps.