Another Hymotion PHEV in consumer's hands

You guys are killing me waiting for my date. At least I'm learning while I'm waiting.

---Kent

 

The lights on my video appeared bright because it was night when I took the video so the LEDs would look brighter for the camera.

I don't really know about the beeps since I'm able to use my own EV button. The only time I hear mine beep is when in EV mode and reaching 34+mph or when I try to enter EV mode too soon. The pack could be entering EV too soon and causing the beeps but I would think the pack would be smart enough to know that it could not try EV mode until the speed reached 34mph or below.

 

Man what an awesome thing.... you lucky bums!

 

Thank you - I'm going to see if they can provide an update via phone this next week. Its good to know the reservation number may not match the product quantity. I know they've done double digit installs at the install location here in MN. I've ordered a Scanguage now too and will try to get familiar with it prior to my install. I am also reading up on CANVIEW.

Thanks for leading the way on this guys!

 

I would suggest trying to augment some of those MPG numbers with
an estimate of how many KWh went into the car from the wall, too...
perhaps work up a GGE figure too, such as about 10 - 12 KWh of
propulsive power roughly equating what you get from a gallon of
gas in a Prius.
.
This is the factor that all the people ballyhooing about "100 MPG!"
NEVER take into account. That just misleads the public.
.
_H*

 

OK so what would be the proper way to inform the public on the actual MPG? If you take what I have used in kWh and used your 10-12kWh per gallon then so far I have used about 7.4 gallons of gas just in electricity on the low end plus another approximate 3 gallons of actual gas. This is over about 500 miles. So 10.4 gallons of gas at 500 miles that would be about 48MPGe? or am I doing some math wrong?

I think a better way is to just say it in term of price per gallon equivalent. I have calculated the price I pay or electricity and the price for gas and I come up with that I'm paying the equivalent of about $1.60 per gallon of gas.

 

Excuse my naivete but I have some questions:
Is the Hymotion battery and installation kit expected to come down in price as the system becomes more available? Why is there only a 3 year warranty? Wouldn't just make sense to purchase a 2010 Prius than purchase this kit for current 2004-2008 Prius owners, being resale Prius value is top dollar versus purchase the kit The kit voids the Toyota warranty (I think)? Once the warranty period with the kit expires then hat happens if there is a problem with the hybrid battery? Do the buyers really know the competence and life history of the kit? How will the kit battery perform in the dead of a midwestern winter? I congratulate the buyers of the kit and wish everyone the best of luck with it. The kit buyers may be well above the curve regarding hybrids just like the early Prius buyers. It is a very appealing feature for all of us Prius owners.

 

Financial sense? Perhaps. But then I wouldn't have the PHEV NOW
And, I wouldn't be actively rewarding and encouraging PHEV technology.
The Kit does not void the general warranty.
And hymotion has said "if a vehicle's OEM denies a Hymotion customer warranty service due to a problem caused by a Hymotion module, A123 will pay for the otherwise warranted repair. "

Yes, part of wanting these now is being an early adopter.
Part, in my case, is also wanting to do anything I can to lessen our dependance on oil, and cut my personal co2 pollution without cutting down my living standards.

 

I have to echo Zythryn's post above, and there is an additional reason why I would rather have the Hymotion L5 pack now rather than the Toyota PHEV in 2010 (or 2011, or 2012...): Hymotion's pack will go 30-40 miles before needing a recharge while the Toyota factory PHEV may be good for as little as 8 miles before the pack runs out (I've seen many numbers thrown around and while it is all speculation at this point, having a PHEV30+ now rather than waiting on a PHEV8+ 2-4 years from now is a worthwhile gamble IMO).

 

Bear in mind that Hymotion specs their range differently than most. The convention in general has been to discuss PHEVs in terms of their EV range. So a PHEV10 would go ~10 miles on pure EV, or ~20 miles at 100mpg at high speed. Hymotion has chosen to define their range as their mixed mode range. They claim you will get 100mpg for 30-40 miles, not have an EV range of 30-40 miles. So the Hymotion EV range should be ~15-20 miles based on that. Their pack is 5kW, and I believe 3kW of that is usable. Based on standard estimates of 200-250Wh/mi one would expect ~12-15 miles EV range out of a pack this size. So the Hymotion pack is probably what would conventionally be called a PHEV15. Thats not a bag on Hymotion, they're the first ones with a real PHEV product on the market so they can pretty much market it however they want. In many ways their way is more relevant to consumers, while the traditional way was more relevant to engineers (battery size more or less equals EV range, mixed mode range has a lot more variables)

FWIW, I think Toyota is on the right track. First gen PHEVs will have to be sized based on battery cost more than anything. If Toyota can give us a PHEV8 and keep their target of ~$3k cost delta I think they'll have a winner. IMHO thats going to sell a lot more units than a $10k delta PHEV15, or a $40k PHEV30-40 Chevy Volt. Ultimately the higher sales volume will take a much bigger chunk out of our petroleum consumption than the higher priced, low volume longer range models. Then as battery prices drop as volume picks up, you can keep scaling up the range for the same price delta.

Rob

 

Hello Rob,

Thanks for the correction. I just looked at their website - I believe you are right regarding Hymotion's mixed use range being 30-40 miles. But even given this, I am still jazzed about having a true plug-in 2-4 years before they are available at a consumer level from a major manufacturer like Toyota.

A few years from now when Toyota (and GM? and others) have a PHEV available for the public, maybe those of us who have the L5 pack will be able to trade-in/upgrade it to something with a true 30-40 mile (or more) EV range. We'll see...battery technology is constantly improving so we may have more options in a few years.

 

I don't think they have much choice as it is still a hybrid synergy drive - the ICE still has to run a fair bit during first 40 miles. The Prius's electric motor is not able to accerelate the car at normal rates on it's own.

 

I must be dense, since I don't really understand all the fuss and confusion about how to rate a PHEV. I am only really interested in accessible battery capacity.

Pulse and Glide in EV does not make sense to me, since there is no power production to optimize. However, ICE pulse to accelerate, and then warp-stealth sounds like a winner.

 

Given a rating of 67hp and 295 ft-lbs torque, is it really true that the Prius's electric motor is not able to accelerate the car at normal rates on its own? I know the Prius does not currently do this, but perhaps this is because it is not the efficient thing to do given the assumption that all energy is ultimately coming from the ICE (this is the current design point). Perhaps it would just take a software change (plus a large plug-in battery) to allow pure EV mode with rapid acceleration. If so, Toyota could make such a change in the future.

 

I guess it doesn't have enough power (why would they over engineer the motor and not use it), but I was only stating that the hymotion kit doesn't prevent the ICE from coming on during normal acceleration. Check out this performance data. high-power lithium ion batteries. Look at the ICE rpm line.

 

priusinny,

Maximum electric only power in a Prius is about 20 kW. The number you mentioned is an amalgam of inputs from the battery and ICE routed through the MG1 motor.

 

I believe that is correct, the motor is rated for 50kW but the inverter and battery are rated lower. Thats not to say they couldn't change that in a full PHEV version. I believe one main reason for this is to limit the current draw from the fairly small battery to prolong its life. With a bigger battery, more current should be available without doing harm.

Rob

 

I think its as simple as marketing vs. engineering. Engineers want to know how big the battery is, and EV range is directly proportional to capacity. Consumers (in the eyes of marketing) just need to know how far will it go at what mpg. I did not mean to sound critical of Hymotion's choice, just point out that its a possible source of confusion when comparing to other discussed PHEVs.

Rob