Self Tire Rotation Kinda Rusty

I make a point of breaking the lugs with the tires on the ground. I find that they may need me to stand on the lug wrench, but they always break. then I jack up the side with the floor jack. Just a thought

 

Hi Ed,

I do not think that lubrication of the wheel lugs is a good idea. The tightening torque is 76 ft.-lb and that assumes the lugs are dry.

Following are a few weblinks that you may find interesting, or not.
Tire / Wheel Installation Procedures
Tires - Lug Nut Torque
Lubricant on wheel nuts? - Yahoo! Answers

 

If you have an FJ Cruiser or something, then maybe the tightening torque might be 100 ft.-lb. Prius is 76 ft.-lb. See 7(g) of attached.

 

Hi Ed,

The tire stores in your locale apparently operate quite differently from the stores that I buy from. I usually buy tires from either America's Tire or Costco, at various physical locations within both chains in Silicon Valley, where I used to live, and currently in Orange County. In every case I have noted that the tire installer will use an air impact wrench just to loosely install the lug nuts, then will use a torque wrench to finish the job. In fact, at Costco one employee will use the torque wrench to tighten the lug nuts, followed by the supervisor who will walk around the car, checking the torque applied to the lug nuts at all four tires.

The concern with lubricating the studs is that this will allow greater force to be applied (since friction between the stud and the lug nut is being reduced) than would be the case if the studs were dry. The concern with excessive torque being applied is that this may warp the hub. Also note that the torque spec for Prius (at 76 ft.-lb) is lower than may be the case for other automobiles that you are familiar with.

Following is a Tirerack.com webpage on this particular issue:
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=107

If you have access to an authoritative source that indicates lubricating studs or lug nuts is an appropriate activity, please provide it.

Looking at your first photo, I see no rust on the studs. I understand your concern about not wanting the hub and wheel to stick together due to corrosion. However the amount of grease used in the fourth photo and the high temps potentially reached during friction brake operation (especially with a conventional automobile) may result in some grease spinning off the hub and ending up on the disc or the brake pads.

I rotate tires at 5,000 mile intervals (~ four month intervals) and torque the lug nuts to 76 ft.-lb. As a result, the corrosion between the hub and wheel doesn't have an opportunity to cause a big problem. The amount of corrosion that I have seen is similar in magnitude to the corrosion in your photos.

I recently had occasion to change one tire on an emergency basis for the 2004, when my wife hit debris on the highway and destroyed the RF tire. As you know, the factory-supplied wrench (stored in the black plastic tray above the spare tire) has a short arm on it, but I was able to easily loosen the lug nuts by standing on the end of the wrench.

 

you should tourque them if you overtighten you could warp your rotors

 

Ed, it is pretty obvious to me that you have never done any stress analysis on metal structures of any kind, otherwise you would never make the kind of remark like:
"Also I gotta tell you I've never seen anyone use a torque wrench on tire lugs before. Never ever in my 35 years of gear head joy. Its just not that critical."

Of course it is critical. Why else would all manufacturers quote a value for wheel-nut torque, or any other threaded nut for a critical part for that matter. Steel is elastic, and the point of avoiding over-torque is to prevent axial strain on the wheel bolt beyond its elastic limit, that creates a permanent set or stretching (ultimately breaking) of the bolt. It keeps the bolt within the elastic region following Hooke's law.

It also allows a margin for the transient loads that all wheels are subject to, from scuffing curbs, road pot-holes, speed bumps etc.

Patrick's advice makes sense, and is based on a rational analysis of what matters.

 

Holy s***, the hubs looked as if the car spent its entire life in a northern climate where the dump salt on the roads all winter long. Have to love humid air near the ocean

I also apply grease to my lugnuts, and to the mating flange. I use Loctite Nickel Grade Anti Seize. I understand all the arguements about why this is a bad idea

However, in my climate, after a couple of years it would be impossible to remove the lugnuts or the wheel. I've seen cars on the side of the road, with a flat tire, and the guy is kicking at the tire with all his strength, and it won't budge

So the lesser of two evils is to lube the threads and mating surface. I've never had a problem with snapping nuts off

Patrick: FJ Cruiser calls for 85 lb ft

 

I go along with the anti-seize. I have used it on a few cars I have had with aluminum wheels. The aluminum wheel and the steel rotor will bond...... EVEN @ 5000 mi. rotation intervals mine have stuck some. Nothing wrong with using the anti-seize. The Prius is not as bad @ sticking as some other cars I have had. The Hyundai XG350L being one of them, the rear being the worst. Stuck in NYC @ night with a flat tire and the wheel stuck even with all the lugs off and on the ground... could have driven it home without lug nuts. Had to wedge a metal pipe between the spokes and the rotor to pry it loose. THAT'S when I started using the anti-seize. By all means use it, it works with no problems.

 

Oh, I bet *that* was quite the adventure

 

Could you share the specific anti-seize product you use? Thanks!

 

I use Loctite Nickel Grade Anti Seize

 

Another option would be to use a powdered graphite on the threads and nuts. Also liquid/graphite products should work.

I seem to remember that years ago I used graphite for lug nuts. The benefit is that it stops the nuts from freezing on, but does not attract dust and dirt to it. It also won't run or get flung around if the wheels heat up.

Best wishes,

 

i think u guys need to eat your wheaties...u are guys right?

 

Seriously, any salt around (Either in the air like Florida, or dumped on the roads up here in winter) and after a couple of years, that wheel is stuck to the hub. Especially an aluminum wheel.

I'm a big guy and have really had to beat the s*** out of some wheels to get them off on other vehicles. I've seen guys use sledge hammers to try to pound the wheel off, it's that bad

But a teeny little dab of Loctite Nickel Grade Anti Seize, and all is well

 

Smirk, snicker

Surprised me too. Until you have had a wheel STICK to the hub, you'd think it could never happen.

The only thing better is the spare tire dangling under the rear of the vehicle, like on many minivans and pickups. Folks never attempt to take them off twice a year to check the spare tire pressure, so naturally when they finally need the spare, it's flatter than the tire they took off

If they can even get the spare off. Any salt in the area, especially dumped on roads, and that crank thing for the spare tire is NOT going to work.

Last summer, on the way to the hobby farm, an older person was on the side of the road with a Silverado pickup, a 2003. Flat rear tire. That spare tire crank was NOT working, seized up tight.

We both tried wrenching on it, and sure enough if the crank rod didn't just snap off right at the head. I kept him company until the wrecker arrived, they probably had to cut the damn spare tire off