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2010 Insight won't beat Prius

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by ghomner, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. ghomner

    ghomner New Member

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    Considering that the Honda will deploy IMA (Integrated Motor Assist) “mild-hybrid†technology, it's not even in the same playing field as the Prius in my opinion. From what I understand, the Honda system essentially negates electric-only drive.

    If I'm wrong, or if there's more detailed info to read somewhere, please tell me.

    There's a lot more to the Prius than just good gas mileage. It sounds like the 2010 Honda Insight will only get good gas mileage but none of the other technology features that make the Prius the exceptional choice that it is.
     
  2. Prius 06

    Prius 06 Member

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    The problem with the IMA is....it always needs gas. Where as the Prius can run on electric for some parts of it's trips.
    From what I've read it looks like the new Insight will work pretty much like all of Honda's Hybrids.
    Someone did say on here when the first pics were showen that they heard it was going to be IMA but will also be able to run on electric as well, like the Prius.
    But if that were true, I don't think they'd call it IMA anymore. As people would have the wrong idea about it.
     
  3. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    Uh, guys, time for a reality check. WHO CARES if the car has uber technology.

    Does it get good fuel economy? Prius and current IMA Civic, YES. Almost the same mileage in the "real world". Insight projected to do at least as well as the current Civic, maybe better. New Prius projected to do at least as well as the current one. Maybe better.

    How much does it cost? The new Insight should be about $2000 - $4000 less than a Prius. You get a larger car with the Prius. So $ per value would be about the same.

    How about reliability? Honda has a good name (earned), just as Toyota has.

    The Insight should fly off the dealer lots, just like the Prius does!

    The Insight, in spite of what many in the auto journals say, does not really compete with the Prius. It's a "compact car". The Prius is a "midsize car". It WILL compete in that buyers will now have more to choose from so will be able to get -exactly- what they need!

    I'd say everyone wins!
     
  4. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Nothing shocking or new about it. From the beginning, Honda chose their hybrid implementation and Toyota chose theirs. Though the new Insight will not get higher mileage than the Prius, it will most likely beat any 4-door non-hybrid sedan and provide another viable option for families looking to reduce their carbon footprint, this one possibly without waiting lists.
     
  5. ghomner

    ghomner New Member

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    This may be the case for folks whose only concern is price of car and gas mileage. My post was referring to the advantages that the HSD offers. the IMA lacks many of these advantages. I suspect many people buy a Prius for several reasons that are only present as a result of the HSD, good gas mileage being only one of those reasons.

    Presently the Insight sounds like a typical sedan (that gets good gas mileage). Nothing more. Whereas the Prius is not a typical sedan.
     
  6. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Now that's a very true statement. Honda's IMA system (often referred to as auto shut-off) reduces idling and the fuel it wastes. Auto shut-off can be applied to just about any vehicle currently on the road. It's a solid idea with myriad applications. It's no HSD system, that's for sure, but it works.
     
  7. fish_antlers

    fish_antlers New Member

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    who cares... if the honda is cheaper and gets similar mileage, the prius is out and ,mine will be traded in, not to mention the fact that I'd be looking forward to some higher quality and better finish, a dept honda continuously beats toyota in. Still very disappointed overall in fit/finish of toyota products. What can I say... they feel cheap.
     
  8. ghomner

    ghomner New Member

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    I agree about fit and finish. I like Hondas a lot too.

    That HSD system is pretty impressive though. I wonder why other manufacturers aren't copying it or creating models in their fleet that use it?
     
  9. RhythmDoctor

    RhythmDoctor Member

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    Have you heard of patents? That's why. They can't just copy it unless they purchase a license from Toyota, and many of them are unwilling to.

    I've owned 5 Hondas/Acura and 3 Toyotas, and I always liked Hondas more than Toyotas - better fit and finish (as others said), better long-term quality in my experience, more youthful designs, and just generally more fun to drive. I could care less whether it can run electric only - if the IMA assist is enough to match the mileage of HSD over a broad range of typical driving conditions, I'm fine with it. Remember, electric-only is not "free" - in fact, if you over-use it you are just creating more need for the ICE to charge the batteries, which over the long run is less efficient than just having the ICE turn the driveshaft.

    I'm good with my 2 Priuses for the next 10 years or so, but I'll be rooting for Honda (and GM/Chrysler, Ford, etc.) to succeed in this area. Consumers need more selection of environmentally friendly and economical cars. I'd love to buy another Honda in 10 years.
     
  10. ghomner

    ghomner New Member

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    I must admit, I tend to like Hondas per se better too for the reasons you stated.
     
  11. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Ford Escape Hybrid uses similar technology as the Classic Prius. I understand that Ford and Toyota cross-licensed each other for various elements of hybrid technology.

    Nissan Altima Hybrid also uses similar hybrid technology, having licensed this from Toyota.

    Honda and GM are going their own way.
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    For the sake of individual purchases now, it really is a matter of preference.

    But stepping back to look at the big picture, the fact that IMA cannot be augmented to use more electricity will end up holding back Honda later. Then there's the reality that larger vehicles (like Camry & Sienna) won't be getting IMA, as Honda has clearly stated a preference to diesel for them instead.

    Insight's wake-up call to GM sure will be interesting. That will hopefully translate to a win for everyone. High-Volume production of reasonably priced hybrids won't be limited to just Toyota soon.

    .
     
  13. fish_antlers

    fish_antlers New Member

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    I dont believe this to be true.... Honda's non- hybrid economy vehicles already produce near prius MPGs... given development, any way you slice it, honda poses a real threat to the prius and its market.

    I'm sure a test drive will be in order.
     
  14. ghomner

    ghomner New Member

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    Was the combustible engine patented when it first appeared?
     
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    There are so many problems with that, I don't know where to begin.

    What will 50 percent of each automakers product-line consist a decade from now?

    It's not just about Prius and not just the next few years.

    .
     
  16. fish_antlers

    fish_antlers New Member

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    please explain the "problems" ... there is an abundance of oil for the next several hundred years, honda's non hybrid civic and other models almost match the prius for economy... I can't see how honda could miss out if they made a high quality inexpensive competitor to the prius...
     
  17. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    HSD has no shift lag and is inherently more reliable than an old-style transmission.

    I agree that Honda makes excellent products. My GF's Civic is a marvel of conventional automotive technology; I would have bought one had there been no Prius.
     
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Gladly, after you answer the question...

    What will 50 percent of each automakers product-line consist of a decade from now?

    .
     
  19. fish_antlers

    fish_antlers New Member

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    what kind of a stupid question is that? Sure... I work in the accounting dept of ever auto manufacturer, and I'll get that breakdown for you and post it on the internet ASAP :pound:

    Come on already... You have no point - face it - Honda's new car will pose a great threat to the prius... toyota better step up to the plate big time or the prius is out.

    Really, the only thing going for the prius at this point is that it has no real competition... add some healthy competition and choice for consumers and I guarantee you pruis sales will drop.
     
  20. RhythmDoctor

    RhythmDoctor Member

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    Not sure what a combustible engine is - one made of coal? :( If what you are referring to is the four-stroke internal combustion engine, of course Otto patented it in 1876. Circumventing this patent is what forced Atkinson to develop his own variant, upon which the Prius ICE is based. Later court rulings reduced the enforceability of Otto's patent, which opened up the technology for others.

    This historical stuff is widely available on the web. You may want to do some research on intellectual property law as well.