Toyota suspends work on Mississippi Prius plant

Just think about it - how many vehicles do GM and Ford sell around the world? What about other US business with huge presence around the world? Power of US was built on freetrade agreements with rest of the worlds, sometimes forced on smaller countries.

It is extremly silly to suggest that americans should buy only american, when american businesses world wide are saying exact opposite in every other country in the world .

 

what about other Toyota factories in US that have suspended their production and have not laid off full time emplyees? Was that number 25 as well?

;-)

 

NO NO NO! Look at the YTD numbers!


--------------- Large Trucks -------------- Small Trucks
Ford ----------- 473,933 --------------------- 62,017
Chevy --------- 432,725 --------------------- 49,899
Dodge --------- 229,222 ------------------- ~22,000**
GMC ----------- 155,564 --------------------- 13,531
Toyota -------- 128,058 --------------------- 135,962
Nissan ------- ~32,000* ---------------------- 43,595
Honda ------------- 0 -------------------------- 32,186
Totals -------- 1,451,502 --------------------- 359,190


It is true that full-size truck sales have fallen by a larger percentage than compact trucks. That does not mean that they are "best sellers". Full size trucks are still outselling compacts 4:1.


* The Nissan Titan fell out of the top ten for Nov. It had sold 30,907 in October and has to be less than the Honda Ridgeline's 32,186 October 2008 Top 10 Truck Sales - PickupTrucks.com News

** The Dodge Dakota sold 42,795 in 2007. In Nov 2008 Dodge reported that sales are down 49% YTD PickupTruck.com - Update 1: February 2008 Truck Sales Are Ugly

GMC Canyon: http://www.gm.com/corporate/investor_information/docs/sales_prod/08_11/deliveries_0811.pdf

Yes they are very different markets. Trucks are personal vehicles in the US and vans are commercial vehicles in Europe. As US buyers shift away from the truck they will still need utility specifically US commercial users. Ford has decided a market exists and they are bringing the Transit. GM has made a panel van version of their HHR. We will see what happens. NAPA Auto Parts has use Ford Rangers to deliver parts for decades. The last time I was there they had replaced the Rangers with two Pontiac Vibes.

 

No, that was 4,500 workers and very costly. 4500 workers x 40 hrs x 10 weeks x $48 wage+benefits = $86.4 Million. Toyota has decided it is worth spending that money to have their employees complete training and do community service.

Toyota idles factories—but can't lay anybody off - Financial Week
GM Vs. Toyota Wages And Benefits

 

Dave,

'Tis true that Rome lost its dominant position as the capital of the Empire.
But Roman society, and its impact on European history did not end there.
The capital of the Empire moved to Byzantium, Constantinople as we know
it, and the redefined, reconstituted Empire continued for some 900 years.
(I'm sure that if daniel reads this he will provide details, etc. )

Lastly, I think that it is not necessarily inevitable that a step back or
down from automible manufacturing dominance be permanent; post-WWII
France, Germany, and Japan being examples.

Perhaps the word "dominance" itself is the problem. Do we have any right
to expect, nevermind demand, that the Detroit 3 dominate the world?
Probably not.

I would support their being prominant, profitable, forward looking, and
industry leading in the necessary move towards EVs, PHEVs, and hybrids.

New thought: I have a seriously irrational soft spot for panel trucks/sedan
deliveries. The Chevy HHR is a brick. If the Ford Transit were available here, I
might just loose sight of the goal of an EV being my next vehicle!

 

In those countries, GM and ford set up shop in an auto-producing vacuum(brazil), the companies are partners with the home country firms(china), or the company has been there since the beginning(germany). YOu are comparing apples and oranges. Japan builds twice as many vehicles in Japan as it sells there, and the same can be said of Korea. If that was the case in the states, GM, Ford and Chrysler would have made almost 11 million vehicles in the US in 2007. Think about how much healthier our economy would be under that scenario.

 

Heck, that was a cake walk. Now crossing the delaware took balls:


Don't forget crossing the Rubicon:


It is nonsense to argue things having nothing to do with the technical aspects of one vehicle versus another. One might as well argue the $700 B. bailout as argue who was in what boat and when.

Bob Wilson
former Marine

 

Ya' know I'm surprised at this, cause I thought for sure that Toyota (or any other foreign car manufacturer with plants here) would see the failure of the big three as an opportunity to speed up on finishing the plant, and then hire a good portion of the skilled laborers who are going to lose their jobs with GM, Chrysler, etcetera. Sure they may be paid less, but the benefits are great and I'm sure a lot of those UAW's would defect.

Is this a ludicrous, or brilliant idea?

 

If the BIG-3 go down filing chapter 7 and liquidated, the Chinese will come in and buy the assets for dirt cheap price. They have ton loads of US dollars.
Then they will be building cheap Chinese cars here.

 

Toyota understands the economics of the situation much better than you do. If GM and Ford go down the auto market in the US will go down to 3-5 million units/year. The Japanese companies would have over production throughout the world including in the US.

 

If one of the Detroit 3 liquidate in chapter 7 bankruptcy you will have assets and capacity to build millions of cars per year go on the auction block at the same time. These will be sold at pennies on the dollar most likely to Chinese and Indian auto companies looking for cheap access to the US market. This gives the Japanese new competitors that currently can afford to enter the US market. All at once they can buy access to a dealer network and the technology needed to meet US standards in emissions and crash testing for pennies.

With a bankruptcy you will also have domino effect into the Tier 1 then 2 then 3 suppliers. As most components are single sourced all it takes is the bankruptcy of one supplier of one part to shut down an assembly line.

In addition to the auto sector issues you will have the general economic fallout. If you up the unemployed by a few percent you will have even less demand for cars.

None of the automakers, foreign or domestic, want to see a Chapter 7 liquidation of the Detroit 3. I would simply cost them too much money at a time when they already expect to be in the red.

BTW, the transplant automakers pay the same base wages as the Detroit 3. The difference is in health care costs. If you hire the older work force from the Detroit 3 you will get their expensive health problems as part of the package.

 

Consumers do love to super-size their vehicles, but to me it is a combination of a chicken and an egg question. Did people clamor for bigger vehicles and car companies oblige, or did car companies make them and show people how they could have the privileges of a big vehicle with no consequences.

I had a friend who had a small truck (can't remember the make or model) he used to commute in. Even back in the days of cheap gas, he was happy that he was able to get mpg that was close to a car out of it and still was able to retain some of the truck capabilities. But now people are convinced they need a big vehicle because of a mixture of their own attitude and auto marketing. Although I think you are right that small trucks are going to make a comeback.

 

malorn;

now you think im unpatriotic because of what i said??? well, maybe... maybe not... i was born in Okinawa, so where does my patriotism lie?? hehehe... ya, whatever...

IT is however, just like you to cherrypick anyone's posts for your rebuttal...

why dont you answer the question?? so what are we going to do about it?? or are we going to do anything about it?? we've had 20 years to think about it....

i liken us to Rome quite a bit. Rome failed because its citizens looked to the government to save them based on past performances... unfortunately, rested laurels dont win battles. the citizens do... but in Rome's case, the citizens didnt have a clue as to how to do that and only had a vague notion as to how they got what they had, but were only certain of one thing...

THEY DID VERY LITTLE IF ANYTHING AT ALL TO "EARN" THEIR PRIVILEGES

and, they made the same mistake we are making....

THEY THOUGHT THEY DID NOT HAVE TO DO MUCH TO KEEP THEIR PRIVILEGES...

 

Implement an industrial policy and energy policy which will actually benefit the United States, including instantaneous reciprical trade agreements wtih all countries especially, China and Japan. Just because we have rested on our laurels and let down our guard there is still time to change our ways. On autos, I would insititute institute an immediate 20% tariff on all imported autos and auto parts until the importing countries allow 20% of their sales to be imports. I would repeat this for all industries under the industrial policy.

There is still time.

 

I would like to see Australia have a policy where our import tariffs vary from country to country. I would like to see our import tariffs equal to the import tariffs of the country of origin. For example Malaysia has import tariffs of around 40%, while Australia has import tariffs of 10% and considering a reduction to 5%. Would Malaysia reduce tariffs on Australian cars if it would result in an increase in sales into Australia? Well considering the sales of Proton into Australia is 20 times or more greater than the sales of Holdens and Aussie Fords into Malaysia I would imagine they would. Maybe the US needs a policy like this, matched percentage import tariffs with country of origin.

What is the import tariffs on US made cars going into Japan? Don't tell me they are not allowed to be imported because there are American cars on the roads in Japan.

I was under the impression that it wasn't possible to get into the Japanese market from some posts here but it seems the Germans are managing and even the Americans to a lesser degree.
quote from Foreign Cars Losing Stigma in Japan - International Herald Tribune

 

oic... your answer is to FORCE us to buy from the big 3...

ya, why am i not surprised?

 

The surprising answer is none. No import tariff, no quotas, no domestic content requirements.

This is from the US Department of Commerce: http://www.dtm.gov.tr/dtmadmin/upload/IHR/PazaraGirisDb/abdmotorlutasitlar.pdf

Japan:

Tariffs:
• Import duties on motor vehicles have been waived indefinitely since 1978.

Taxes:
• Japan currently levies a 5 percent consumption tax on vehicles. This tax was increased from 3 percent in April of 1997.
• In addition to the consumption tax, there is an annual automobile tax, which increases by engine size, ranging from 29,500 to 111,000 yen.
• Japan maintains no local content requirements or quantitative restrictions.
• Japan assesses acquisition tax on the acquisition of an automobile, whether now or used, based on the purchase price. This tax is 5 percent of the purchase price (3 percent for commercial and mini-vehicles. Exempted for vehicle purchased for 500,000 yen or less.)
• Japan also levies tonnage tax according to vehicle weight at each vehicle inspection. The tonnage tax for passenger cars is 6,300 yen per year for each 0.5 ton of gross vehicle weight. The tax for truck varies from 4,400 to 6,300 yen per year.
• These taxes apply to both domestic and imported vehicles.

South Korea has a tariff of 8% down from 80% This reduction happened in 1998. However there is still a fear of purchasing foreign vehicles due to past government actions:

"For example, in December 1996 and early 1997, the National Tax Office (NTO) engaged in broad action directed at lessees of imported autos. Though withdrawn after complaints by foreign governments, the threat of tax audits for lessees of imported cars had a chilling effect on sales of imported vehicles."

China

China has an import tariff of 25%

Taiwan has an import tariff of 30% with engines less than 3.5L and 42% with engines greater than 3.5L

 

Toyota has played the gas guzzling game with trucks and SUVs to stay competitive in the US market. Now they are paying for it. But they have made plenty of money at it.
It's a key question as to whether this market can come back. I suspect Washington will discourage it--and the car companies will be forced to comply. But what to do with the existing inventory?

Some car companies have done worse than the domestic suppliers. Porsche U.S. sales are down 40+ %. BMW in the same range. The media hasn't presented an accurate picture--focussing on domestic car sales.

 

What is hard to understand? BMW and Porsche are imported, and thus affect the German economy. Only Detroit has a far reaching impact on the economy of the US.

The US economy will not comeback as a whoel with our car sales coming back.

 

Japan stops it under the radar at the retail level. Japanese and foreign vehciles cannot be sold under the same roof. So if you want to sell Fords in Tokyo you have to start out with an investment of several millions of dollars. How many toyota or kias would be sold in the US, if the 1960's dealers would not have been able to sell Fords and Hondas out of the same showroom? GM, ford and chrysler have these rules now, about 40 years too late to stop the Japanese, but it will certainly make it tougher for the Chinese and Indian makers to enter the US market.

The Japanese has always had a policy of keeping the yen undervalued vs other currencies to make japanese imports cheap and foreign exports expensive.