Made in Japan...No, China

I understand that they will be built for sale and use in China. The Chinese government has set stricter fuel economy standards for new cars so there will be a big market for hybrids.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jerry P\";p=\"78003)</div>

thats what I think I read... seems that Toyota lost a large market share due to not building for or building cars in China.. they have now agreed to letting the Chinese build Toyotas..

Bob Andersen

 

Based on what I have read so far, Toyota will annouce a factory (new or existing) to produce all the hybrid models (Prius included) to be sold in US and Canada. CA Governer has been working hard to get it in CA (as many other states' governors have). However, the chance is high that it will be at NUMI plant in Fremont, CA, where Corolla, Tocoma and Tundra are being produced.

The plant in China will produce Prii for sales in China and other part of Asia (than Japan). China will soon be the largest auto market within 10 years (it is now #3 in the world). In case, you haven't noticed, most of your desktop PCs, DVD players are now prodcued in China. Increasingly so, the laptops are now being produced in China as well (used to be in Taiwan). Global econemy... Can't fight that.

 

I avoid buying things from China. Sometimes I have no choice except to not buy it. There are many reasons for this but the primary one is fear of their growing ownership share of US treasury bonds. I also prefer to trade with countries where there is a better wage standard. It is sad to see the growing walmartization of America. Walmart's practice of strong-arming American manufacturing into moving operations to China to reduce cost is eliminating our choice to buy American, one product at a time. Chinese cars at a fraction of the cost will be one more major blow to the American economy. We can fight it. We just can't win when so many flock to the low low price. I just don't think it's a savings that we can afford to take.

Moderator- feel free to delete this post if you see fit and I apologise if this is the wrong place to express this sentiment, but I am way more worried about this than I am about the impending energy crisis.

 

Ray:

You're not the only one worried about that. Even if an American manufacturer can win a trade dispute with China - such as television component makers who invoked the Dumping item - it's temporary at best.

China will soon be the 400lb gorilla in the global economy. Coupled with their critical oil shortage, I'm sure you can see the writing on the wall.

We'll fondly look back on gasoline "only" being $2.50 a gallon.

Jay

 

Ray,
Personally, I also try to avoid stuff made in China as well. Vendors who take advantage of the (controlled) low wages of Chinese workers would not spend money on better parts and QC. It is not the workmanship that I worries.
I am one of the few guys who actually look at the back stickers before I buy things.

 

A little off subject... I am a country kid, have worn Levis since I wore pants.. I wear 501's and as a kid would break them in on a horse back ride to the river get them wet and turn the world blue.. dry them laying on the bank, rocks, or the ride home... as I got older hot water and forever in the dryer worked well too... then Levis started making jeans in Mexico and the shrink to fit 501 added an XX.. took two pair to figure out the XX shrunk and the 501 didn't... my last pair of XX's came from Columbia.. those pants didn't shrink at all... Levis have almost lost my business... not only were they pricie when I was a kid.. but $40 bucks for kick around jeans that bon't fit right.. hmmm think I'll try the cheapies at Wal-Mart... even if they are from China.. OOP

I turned this way off the subject... just me Bi*chin :cussing:

Bob Andersen

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore\";p=\"78035)</div>

Ray, there is no need to apologise for making this statement. It is the truth, and being stated in the open forum.

 

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Toyota would NEVER negotiate a deal with China for China to then build and then inport a Prius into the USA from China.

NEVER, NO WAY, AIN't GONNA happen. It simply makes absolute ZERO marketing sense for Toyota to allow that.

The China Prius plant is for the Chinese market. Period!! Can I cite a source, no I can't at this time, but logic simply demands that there be no other explanation.

Now will the Prius made in China be as near perfect as ours? Probably not, but I'm also quite sure that they won't be no Yugos either. I'm sure they will be damn good cars.

Toyota has been brilliant in the way they have managed the introduction of the Prius. They aren't about to spoil it now.

 

I have nothing against the Chinese, but their trade practices scare the hell out of me. I went to the RC flying field today. I hadn't been there in 4 or 5 years. When I used to fly there, almost everyone built their own planes from scratch or kit. Today almost no one does. The reason is because today you can buy a fully built and covered ready to fly plane for cheaper than buying the balsa and other parts needed to build it from scratch. Another decades old tradition falls to the trade practices of the Chinese and allowed by our government. The next time you go clothes shopping try to buy clothes that aren't from China. My freind from Mexico says that it is the same there. Chinese businessmen come to Mexico, study their various industries, and then copy and underprice the local manufacturers. Jobs are streaming to China from Mexico. Counterfeit goods are destroying design shops and tech R&D departments around the world. I may not be able to do much about it but my money will not go to Walmart.

 

My wife is not very political but she turned me onto boycotting Walmart many years ago. She did it because of "mom and pop" shops.

Then I read a few months ago about how Walmart studies the habits of buyers. Apparently humans can really only remember the price of no more than 100 items, and many people many less than that.

What Walmart does is try to keep track of what most people are paying attention to in regards to pricing. They then make sure the price of those items are lower in their stores. But the rest of the prices are not. So at any one time, about 200 or so items are cheaper at Walmart, but they sell thousands of different items.

Walmart concentrates profits. What made American great was the decentralization of profits. Another name for that is the creation of the middle class. The Walmartification of America cannot be a good thing.

 

China is already well on the way to winning the global economy, though the price is too steep to even contemplate.

First of all, there is a *huge* difference between price - and associated margins related to that price - and quality. The reason Wally World can expect margins exceeding 80% on their Chinese-made items - no matter how crappy they are - is directly related to how the Communist government structures their society.

Human Rights: although there may well be a large hidden resistance to the Communist Central government, the absolute authority of the Chinese government (Eg: the "great firewall" of China) keeps it hidden. You complain against the government, you disappear. If a group complains, they fire up the tanks and flatten you like a human waffle.

Labor Laws: what labor laws? Child labor, prison labor, indentured servitude all exist there. Regular workers are paid a minuscule fraction of what Western workers get paid, and there is ever-increasing pressure to keep those wages lower yet. Get hurt on the job, tough. Complain about unsafe workplace, out the door.

Environmental laws: unless people are dropping left and right in more than the "usual" number it's business as usual. Scrubbers and precipitators on smoke stacks cost a lot of money. The production of semiconductors is actually very dangerous, as you're dealing with things like selenium and arsenic. If you can just dump the flush agents directly into a river, that saves a lot of money.

Monetary Policy: the Chinese currency is kept artificially low to further entice production in China. Of course, the surpluses that China experiences allows it to purchase foreign debt, which is used as leverage against us.

It should tell us something that goods made in China and shipped all the way here are still far cheaper than the same goods made just down the road. It should also tell us something when even the Mexicans are losing jobs to China.

Toyota like any other company recognizes the enormous cost advantages of being able to lower their input costs. Japan leads the world in the use of robotics due to the high costs of employing people (Benefits and wages). In China they don't have to invest as heavily in expensive robotics as there is a large, cheap, fearful, and highly obedient workforce.

There may be cultural issues before Toyota sets up car plants in China to export to the rest of the world. Primarily, the Chinese people were treated quite badly just before and during WW II, including human experimentation to develop primitive biological weapons. So China and Japan are not exactly pals even to this day.

But once the stigma to "Made In China" is removed, we'll see a flood of cars from all the brands made in China. Look how quickly folks got over "Made In South Korea" with Hyundai and Kia. It didn't take long for GM to take a Daiwoo brand car and slap a Chevy badge on it.

 

Jayman, Bricklin (the guy who brought us the Yugo), is currently working on just that - bringing a chinese car stateside to sell.

Danny, As far as I know, that factory is still on track to be built.

 

we should be concerned with a country we are at war with. the problem is that we dont even know they are attacking us. china flooding the US market with cheap consumables is destroying the middle class by making jobs they used to have go away.

so we will be weaken from the inside in while china gets stronger. soon it will be us and them fighting over the oil supply and what will happen then when the cheap consumables stop?? we will have nothing to fill the need since we have long since put all our eggs in the "china" basket.