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Fuel Economy NOT the U.S. Automakers problem

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Devil's Advocate, Jan 5, 2009.

  1. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    •Small cars

    •Economy cars

    •"Green" cars

    •High safety cars

    • Cars that are innovative in their substance, rather than their sheet metal.

    Fark if I know.
     
  2. malorn

    malorn Senior Member

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    So what percentage of the US market are "green" cars? about 1.4%?
     
  3. Devil's Advocate

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    The original intent of this post is to question the shrill of people claiming that U.S. Auto makers were in trouble because they didn't produce "fuel efficient" cars. Which the recent decline in the ENTIRE auto market I believe disproves.

    Now, if they had a better selection of high MPG cars would the downturn have been less severe? maybe. Ask, Honda. They are the worlds most fuel efficient car maker as they don't have any large trucks or SUVs and they still took a beating this past quarter.

    Yes, Americans want big cars. Part of the reason I got the Prius was that it was, well at least big enough for 95% of what I need a car for. I just think that "Big" cars will always have a place and people will always have a desire for them. Only high gas prices change that (eventually), whether they are high by speculation (as happened here) or government taxation. (as in.. well the rest of the world).

    I'd like to see all electric and hybrid (H2/electric) vehicles replace ALL cars in America. Not because of any environmental benefit, (because I assure you when all electric cars become the standard there will still be some, and some relatively severe, environmental impacts. Just different ones than we have now. I just hate giving two bit dictators and terrorists more of my money. (Also why I do not buy Citgo gas)
     
  4. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    the "recent decline" well, that would imply that one bad year is the reason the big 3 are on the verge of bankruptcy. this is the first year Toyota had a decline (honda had a bad year a few years back) in decades.

    but then again, they are not near bankruptcy.... fact is, other car manufacturers established a reputation of building smaller, high quality efficient vehicles, the big 3 were pretty much slapped in the face FOR YEARS before they grudgingly changed part of their product line to address this fast growing segment.

    well they did it decades too late and although its been proven that the quality difference between manufacturers today is so small as to be nearly non-existent, there is a mindset in the American Consumer that is not going to be changed.
     
  5. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Where is this data? I've found out that "Quality" can be seen as either "Initial Quality" or "Long Term Reliability". I am very interested to see if the "quality" improvements in the Detroit cars is the former or later.
     
  6. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    JD Power Initial Quality (First 3 months)
    [​IMG]

    The best brand has .87 problems per car.
    The average brand has 1.18 problems per car.
    The worst brand has 1.67 problems per car.
    The difference from best to worst is less than 1 problem. All modern cars are good, some are slightly better than others.



    JD Power Dependability (3 years)
    [​IMG]
    The best brand has 1.2 problems per vehicle
    The average brand has 2.06 problems per vehicle
    The worst brand has 3.44 problems per vehicle
    Basically +/- one problem per from best to worse.

    Toyota is the best Japanese company with an average of 1.74 problems per vehicle. (Lexus, Toyota, Scion)
    Ford is the best American company with an average of 1.73 problems per vehicle. (Lincoln, Ford, Mercury)

    5 problems that appear on in the top 10 for initial quality and dependability:
    • Excessive wind noise
    • Noisy brakes
    • Vehicle pulling to the left or right
    • Issues with the instrument panel/dashboard
    • Excessive window fogging

    When these are all the customer can come up with to complain about you are doing pretty good.
     
  7. FL_Prius_Driver

    FL_Prius_Driver Senior Member

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    Thanks greatly.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Don't kid yourself. JD power knows what side of the bread their butter is on. The same graph, made up from Consumer reports show WAY lower quality results from the get go ... and although the likes of GM have made some improvements, they still have a ways to go to be on par w/ some of the asian manufacturers. Equally creepy is that asian manufacturers that also build here in the U.S. find lower quality in the same models than the model built overseas.


    Oh please . . . you lost all credibility back when you posted another thread about how Toyota needs to take some of the blame for Nickel mining is Sudbury ... when the mine had been cleaned up well over a decade before we were running around in the Prius. When you get your credibility back, please return with the model GM makes on par with the Gen II or III Prius' mpg, features and roominess.
     
  9. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    Indeed. Over INCO's history, which goes back over 100 years

    Vale Inco -

    the vast, vast majority of its output was to feed AMERICAN demand. Currently, Toyota as a corporation purchases about 1% of Vale/Inco's entire output

    Nickel isn't just used in batteries. Actually that represents a teeny amount of global nickel demand

    Vale Inco - About Nickel

    According to Vale/Inco, 68% of global nickel demand is to meet the production of stainless steel

    I only wish the hybrid bashers would use enough of a brain cell to actually look this s*** up, at the source no less