1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Silver bullet, part deux

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Fuel Economy' started by dulecki, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. dulecki

    dulecki New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    25
    0
    0
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Some of you may recall that last year, I posted this:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/fuel-economy/40901-do-i-believe-evidence-dealer-3.html#post534412

    My mileage had dramatically dropped after a visit to the dealership, and eventually, I discovered that a local rodent (Chippy, by name, I think) had set up camp above the cabin air filter, depositing a lot of dog food there.

    Well, one of the symptoms last year was a strange smell, and today, I smelled something strange again. Mileage has also been dropping a bit, but I thought that was because of cold weather and the changing gas formulation.

    Lo and behold, Chippy was back! And this time, I *DID* take some pictures!

    First, the CAF after it was removed from the housing:

    [​IMG]

    Next, the measurement of just how much was removed:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    That's 2-1/3 cups... and needless to say, I once again need a new CAF... you can see where it's a little chewed in the top right quadrant, if you look closely.

    So for all those who were looking for pictures last year, here they are. Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go look up who it is that offers those on here, 'cause I'm going to pick up a spare as well. And I'll also look for that thread on how to block the spot where Chippy is getting in, too...
     
  2. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Has your dog been losing weight lately?
    This is a good argument for not leaving dog food out. Chippy likely has a healthy fat family fed on dog food. (or cat food)

    If you put a dogs food away half hour after you put it down the dog will come to realise it must eat right away when fed because someone else eats his/her food if he/she doesn't right now. This is better for the animal and helps keep rodents in check.
     
  3. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2007
    5,051
    483
    97
    Location:
    Flushing, NY
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Wow, that's a lot of food.

    I think this may be the thread you mentioned about screening the holes beneath the windshield wipers and plastic cowl:

    http://priuschat.com/forums/knowledge-base-articles-discussion/51005-mouseproofing-prius.html

    And if you need instructions on removing the wipers and plastic cowl, see the beginning of the attached photos and instructions for installing the BT Tech Strut Tower Brace:

    Attached Files [​IMG] BT Tech Strut Tower Brace Install - By GadgetDad (Lee) v2.doc


    BTW, in my case, because I didn't have wire screen material or self tapping screws around, I blocked off the access holes with materials that I had handy -- gutter guards made of white vinyl lattice w/nylon mosquito netting and gray gaffers tape. I think they'll work:

    [​IMG]

    You can also try to repel rodents from the area underneath the hood either by spraying the underside of the hood with liquid repellants like Rataway or homemade red pepper spray, or by hanging or placing solid repellants like moth balls, cotton balls soaked in peppermint oil or fabric softener dryer sheets underneath the hood (but query whether any such remedy works or is safe).

    Good luck.
     
  4. dulecki

    dulecki New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    25
    0
    0
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    The dog's food is in the garage, in a large tub that's *supposed* to be covered. He eats inside, so it's not an issue of him not finishing his food. It's probably an issue of the *other* humans leaving the lid off the dog food container... myself excepted, of course, because I'm pretty sure I'm perfect ;)

    Thanks for the links, Boo... that's indeed what I'm after next. Thanks especially for the doc on how to remove the wipers and such. I'll be into that shortly... probably tomorrow, 'cause I don't want Chippy to move back in yet ;)

    Already ordered a couple of CAFs from MetroTPN... this one will do until they arrive. Interestingly, there doesn't appear to be any evidence of animal droppings and such... just food. I guess the Prius makes a good pantry too :)
     
  5. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2004
    7,663
    1,038
    0
    Location:
    United States
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    How does a squirrel get into the garage? It should be easy to fix that part of the problem.
     
  6. Prius 07

    Prius 07 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2007
    715
    21
    0
    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Very interesting just wondering why this post is under fuel economy? Next thing you know someone will claim that the Prius is running on pet food;) ... could it be the next "miracle fuel" LOL

    Good luck resolving your pest problem
     
  7. dulecki

    dulecki New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    25
    0
    0
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Chippy's a chipmunk, and you'd be amazed at how little space they need to be able to squeeze into a garage. Besides, he's chewed the rubber seal at the bottom of the garage door so he can get in and out more easily. And yes, I've replaced it... but that doesn't matter in the summer, when the garage door is usually open.

    This is in this thread because my original post from last year was here... I'd lost a massive amount of mileage after going to the dealership for an oil change, and was looking for ideas as to things I could check. When I finally tracked down Chippy's winter home, which seemed to be the culprit (or at least a significant contributing factor), people asked for pictures which I neglected to take back then. So when it happened this year, I was determined to document it fully. Plus, for those who are unaware that the CAF exists, it's a humorous way to be reminded and consider that you should check it periodically...

    In my brief driving this morning, it seems like I've already pulled back a good 5MPG, perhaps more. I'll know more in the next few days.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2005
    19,849
    8,153
    54
    Location:
    Montana & Nashville, TN
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Premium
    That looks like the same stuff I feed Fred, or 90lb black lab. Do you get your dog's food at costco too?
     
  9. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Could it be a beasty which knows how to take off the lid?
    I have a bin I keep pasta in that has the same self removing lid. We get a mouse in the house every couple of years and the pasta is always the first choice for food.
     
  10. dulecki

    dulecki New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    25
    0
    0
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Our dog's got allergies, so that's "unique" food we get at Chow Hound. I think most of 'em look similar... can't vouch for the taste ;)

    I don't think it's a critter getting in there on its own... we're talking a 30-gallon tub with a click-on lid. There have been some chew marks, but nothing's gone through.

    Nope... I think the critters responsible for leaving the food out there have two legs only... ;)

    BTW, I seem to have picked up around 4-5 MPG. Haven't done any serious driving in the last couple of weeks, so I don't know for sure. But it's definitely worth checking out your CAF.
     
  11. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You have birds removing the lid from your dog food? Or is it kangaroos?
     
  12. Wots

    Wots Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    46
    9
    0
    Location:
    chicago
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius

    Love the story but what does the cabin air filter have to do with gaining mpg?
     
  13. Rokeby

    Rokeby Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    3,033
    708
    75
    Location:
    Ballamer, Merlin
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Wots,

    The effect is secondary; the HV battery is either cooled or heated by
    cabin air. The HV battery "likes" the same temps as humans; say 50-85
    degF, with maybe 77degF as ideal.

    Further, even when the AC is on recirc, some outside air is admitted into
    the cabin. In that a blocked cabin air filter would at least reduce the
    volume of air going through the cabin and then into the HV battery, the
    battery would not cool off or heat up as fast as with a free flowing filter.

    The result would be -- I'm fairly certain -- additional run-time for the ICE,
    and a reduction of FE/MPGs. How much time? I wouldn't hazard a guess.
    But while it is there, the effect of the dirty filter is probably quite small.

    If it hasn't been said here, if you hold up the filter to a light and can see
    through it, it doesn't yet need replacing. If it is dirty, first try to clean it
    with a vacuum or compressed air before buying a new one.

    FWIW, virtually all this info was gleaned from reading a gazillion threads
    here on PC over the last year. I'm far from being smart enough in Prius
    related matters to "know" this on my own.

    PriusChat rocks.
     
  14. dulecki

    dulecki New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    25
    0
    0
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    In case I'm sliding past the humor bar, the two-legged critters I believe are responsible are my wife and kids. Primarily the kids, but the wife has an aversion to putting lids tightly on things. Or perhaps I have an obsession... could go either way ;) Couldn't be me, though... I *am* perfect, after all :)

    As for how it impacts fuel economy, like Rokeby said, if the CAF is blocked, economy goes down. It appears that 2-1/3 cups of dog food poured on top of it is worth about 3-4 MPG... exact numbers not quite available. In my case, the CAF was probably reusable except for the holes that had been chewed in it... the replacement CAF has been received and installed.

    As to the question in point, cleaning the CAF blocked with dog food appeared to be a silver bullet a year ago, when I first posted about a performance problem and my difficulty in trusting the dealership. It resulted in an immediate boost in mileage. Same thing appears to have happened this year.
     
  15. Syclone

    Syclone Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2006
    540
    4
    0
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    The cabin air filter has zero impact on fuel economy!
     
  16. dulecki

    dulecki New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    25
    0
    0
    Location:
    Western Michigan
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    I won't disagree with someone making such a strong statement.

    I do, however, have the mileage results from the last two tanks of gas, plus the current reading.

    Tank 1: 305 miles, 8.644 gallons, 38.9 per MFD, 35.3 per my math. That's about 15 MPG off my normal summer mileage. I have no commute.

    Shortly after filling, checked and removed the aforementioned dog food. BTW, it's freakin' cold up here in Michigan...

    Tank 2: 356 miles, 8.034 gallons, 41.8 per MFD, 44.3 per my math.

    To be fair, that included 150 miles on the highway from here to the Wings game Saturday night (sorry, Sabres fans) at peak speeds of a whopping 50MPH... gotta love class 2 snow advisories and such.

    On the trip back the next day, having refilled the tank in Detroit, without that snow advisory, and with "normal" freeway speeds, I don't have any fuel levels, 'cause I'm not filling up at less than half a tank.

    Miles: around 140. MPG per MFD... 49.8. Was over 51 until we stopped at a rest area to take care of business. Methinks I've got to read more about S4 and how to get/stay there...

    Only variable that has changed in a positive manner is the dog food. Weather was crappier, temperatures were colder, and heater/defroster was in *much* more use than normal. I'll call gas a wash since the first two tanks were *probably* from the same place, and I've got no reference point for the current tank.

    I believe during discussions from a year ago, it was mentioned that having the CAF blocked while using the heating system does force it to work harder to get air through. I don't remember the details, and I don't claim to be an expert by any stretch of the imagination.

    From last year when the dealership looked at the poor mileage, they found nothing wrong and in fact, got considerably more mileage than I did.

    They also did their testing with the environmental system turned completely off, too. Eliminates *any* traffic past the CAF, open or closed.

    All I gots is my eyes, the ability to try to avoid repeating mistakes... and the willingness to look around when things seem to be different, trying to figure out the difference. Per Sherlock Holmes...

    In any case, Chippy's probably done for this year. We'll see what happens this time, next year.