Happy Birthday, Mr. Darwin!

How do we know the Bible speaks of a beginning to time, or that before the Big Bang there was no time?

1) "...before the beginning of time." 2 Timothy 1:9
"...promised before the beginning of time..." Titus 1:2
"...before time began." 1 Corinthians 2:7

2) Time is the fourth spatial dimension and its existence is dependant upon depth, heigth, and width. Prior to the Big Bang those 3 dimensions (w,d,h) did not exist within the Singularity, thus there could be no time. Bizarre but true. How do I know this. I don't, but volumes of scientific theory point to it.

 

You guys are keeping me busy:juggle:

A solution is to kill people? No, it's horrible and despicable. It's too bad the Bible doesn't explain the culture of the people the Israelites displaced. When God orders whole communities wiped out it was because of what they were doing i.e. child sacrifice, child prostitution, bestiality. I'm not going to justify the means to the end. We as humans are too small minded to understand what whole masses of people doing these things as a community would have turned the earth into or why God didn't take care of things himself instead of dragging other people into doing it for Him. I don't understand it either.

The whole earth flooding? No, it did not happen, you're right. It was a geographical flood, again, the English translation takes the Hebrew kol erets and does a poor job of putting it in its contextual framework. Why don't they change it to reflect the actual meaning? I don't know, sometimes Christians (not all) are like Darwinists (not all), bullheaded and unable to look at opposing evidence which isn't really opposing at all.

Yup, Christians throughout the ages have mucked it up for themselves and the rest of the world. Hypocrites, bigots, and down right mean people. It truly sucks, it is a pile of dung, that what God really means and tried to exemplify is trashed because Christians are the way they are. I'm not being sarcastic, I truly feel that way. There are even times when I am disgusted with myself because of what I said or did.

But, I am responsible for myself and you are responsible for you, and yet, we are in fact responsible for each other. Think not less of yourself, but of yourself less. Feed the poor, take care of the sick, be a better human towards your brothers and sisters. Isn't that a great place to start, and then led God worry about what epiphany leads you wherever?

 

No hard feelings, Hyo Silver, I wasn't upset!

I don't understand how you can say that the day-age interpretation of the word yom does not make the Genesis account more aesthetically scientific. I think it does indeed add to the narrative.

I guess you're right, there is no scientific evidence for the evidence of a god. But come on, there is no scientific evidence that points to a naturalistic origin of life. There is evidence through fossil records and of evolution but there is no evidence of how it started. Evolution is a theory that as of now does not consider un-naturalistic origins to its beginnings. Seriously, I challenge anyone to cite a scientific study explaining naturalistic origins. For every scientific study that is recognized by the scientific community and is published I will cite a study of the same caliber disproving the initial findings. Isn't that fair that we all play by the scientific communities standards so personal beliefs and emotions do not interfere with this discussion?

p.s. the Book of Genesis does speak of evolution and does not contradict it. Though to be fair, humans as we know them, were a separate creation act. I did not say what lead up to humans, just humans as we know them: homosapiens.

 

Damn, Brother, of course I care a flying fig (just what is that anyways?) about what you think!

Will you have refreshments at your church? I like refreshments.:tea:

 

Best post yet on religion!

I do not care what god (if any) you believe in, treat me with respect and I will treat you with respect!

 

We do follow the lifestyle laid down in The Bible, Christians kill people that are not Christian, Muslims kill people that are not Muslim and so on for most religions. The only exceptions are Jain and Buddhist and neither of those fit into teh general description of Religion really.

Reasoned discussion with people with faith is not possible, by the very definition of the word itself they believe for no reason that can be quantified, that is what faith is.

They are a lot like the Borg, resistance is futile, we will wear you out or bore you to death by repeating things ad infinitum until you join us.

 

Sorry, I thought we were having a reasoned discussion. What part of my ranting was unreasoned discussion?

Sorry again for my Borg-like repeating. What warranted that comment? Let's have a discussion on evolutionary theory and the Bible or versus the Bible or whatever. Science vs. science.

"Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." Albert Einstein

 

"Is not possible" was a bad choice on my part, please consider it replaced with "pointless".

 

Pointless works both ways. I'm not proposing a discussion to end all debate, that's silly thinking. It's only pointless if every single person walks away from this and doesn't take something good from it. Good being a sense of open'mindedness or abilty to have lively discussioon without name calling and stereotyping.

Speaking of discussion, here's one:

Are Science and Christianity Enemies?

Dr. Dave Rogstad speaks at Azusa Pacific University for CRIS (Center for Research in Science)

From: Wednesday, February 25th, at 2009 6:00 PM

To: Wednesday, February 25th, 2009 at 7:30 PM


Topic: Are Science and Christianity Enemies


Location: 901 E. Alosta Ave.
Azusa, CA 91702 US
President's Dining Room - main campus

 

Oh. My bad! Well that makes it easier to support my position that the Bible does indeed support evolution and that evolutionary theory is not contradictory to the Bible. So, did Darwin ever make any speculations on origins of life. Help me out, I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about his book.

Interesting, he thought that God was the ultimate lawgiver, I knew he wasn't atheist. Our pastor at church had stated in a sermon that he struggled with publishing his works because of the conflict it would cause. Even had he not, someone else was about to publish a similar work so it was at that time he decided to go ahead.

For the record, my church does not support young-earth creationism and does not dismiss science. We aren't small either, 7000+.

Editing because I just found this article.

http://www.reasons.org/darwins-doubt

 

After the fact. Brought back memories

 

See, that's it right there. I call it "being good to people." Once you have to depend on a mystical friendly guy who lives in the sky, to dole out rewards and punishment, the entire setup is doomed to failure

 

Like the average guy, my optical channel was on her back when I walked up, and a *lot* lower down. Seriously, have you ever known of a guy making EYE CONTACT with a woman?

Do women even HAVE eyes?

Beats me

On the Drag Queen Giveaway, if I ever happen to bump into Ann Coulter, I should run away screaming

 

Man, it's like your eyes have a mind of their own! Mine too!

Eyes: Dude! I need to see her form! Look down! Look down!
Me: Shut up! We're talking, she'll notice! Don't ruin this for me, Eyeball!
Eyes: She won't notice, it's just for a split second!

There's a war going on up there, and we all know who usually wins.

 

Yep, those are my eyeballs

 

My point was that there is no unquestioned evidence (yet) of anything, or lack of anything, before the big bang, time included. There is a scientific theory that is circulating called "Cyclic Universe Theory" that does consider time extenting back prior to the big bang. This theory is the result of serious work trying to match measurements inconsistent with inflationary theory.

 

Nah, the whole reeks of "an eye for eye". I don't care what they were doing, the systematic slaughter of people as a "reset" button is pretty weak. Like I said, if this bloke couldn't think of a better way then we're knackered. No, this is just the Isrealites justifying a land grab. It was probably a lebensraum sorta thing (think present day Darfur), which seems a common them in that area (it's a pretty reasource poor area. Anybody know what the climate was like in the eastern med about 4K yr BP?).

I completely agree about origins. At some point everybody is taking something on faith there, whether it's a uber-bloke pulling strings or the sudden existance of natural laws that can bring about life and observers.

Helio, have you ever read "The God Theory"? If you haven't, I think you might rather enjoy it.

*giggle*. I thort it might. Would you be upset if I started calling you Begbie?

 

:doh:

I'm never, ever gonna live this one down.

Am I?