Fueling Fact or Fiction?

Let's see, my pickup truck got about 25 mpg. My Prius is currently getting 50 mpg and has more power.

Less than 10% difference between hybrid and conventional? ukeleft:

 

Let's see? I have had my Prius for 6 weeks now.
I have burned an average of 8 gal per week in mixed driving on interstates and local.
Hmm. I previously had an Explorer and it would have burned about 21 gal per week with the same driving. Hmmm. I guess that's about 10% more!

 

Any article that lumps all types of "hybrid" together into a single category is either not constructive or the writer simply doesn't have a clue what a "hybrid" can actually be.

 

Ok, let's compare two cars with similar motors:

2005 Toyota Echo Hatchback: 1.5 litre 4 cylinder VVT-I motor, 5 speed stick, curb weight 2,172 lbs. Transport Canada rated 42 city 54 highway

2005 Toyota Prius: 1.5 litre 4 cylinder VVT-I motor, CVT, curb weight 2,890 lbs. Transport Canada rated 71 city 67 highway.

Keep in mind that I'm using their conversion to MPG which is with Imperial gallons.

Consumer Reports tested a 2004 Prius in their May 2004 issue. In their "real world" driving they got 35 city and 50 highway.

Consumer Reports also tested a Toyota Echo sedan in December 2000. They got 28 city and 46 highway out of a 5 spd stick. So in this case, the Prius only gets 10% better fuel economy than an Echo.

However, when you compare the Echo to the Prius, the Echo is much smaller. Euro NCAP rates both the Yaris (Echo Hatchback in Canada) and the Prius as good performers, with the Prius getting very high scores.

I seriously looked at an Echo Hatchback. The automatic is kind of sluggish and I really didn't want the stick shift for a car that would spend most of its life in city traffic. Otherwise, the Echo Hatchback is a fine car and I have recommended it to coworkers and friends.

One last point is about price. I paid $35,000 Cdn for my Prius (Optional head airbags, "premium" JBL, SKS, VCS, etc). You can get a basic 3 door Echo Hatchback (5 spd, manual steering, manual windows, no head airbags) for $13,000 Cdn.

Overall I'm happy with my Prius and consider the fuel economy a real plus. However if I were on a very tight budget, the Echo Hatchback would be sitting in my parking stall.

 

The key word there is "comparable." Comparing a Prius to an SUV isn't fair and is disingenuous. There are cars that do get mileage close to the Prius. In the US, there's the Mini Cooper, but that's significantly smaller. VW's diesels are good with mileage, not so good with emissions. Finding a "comparable" car is never going to be agreed upon. The closest one can get is comparing the first gen Prius to the Echo, or the Civic hybrid to the standard Civic. I think those figures will get you something closer to 20% or 30% difference.

I was more interested in the factoid that colder gas is denser. I guess it makes sense, since virtually every other fluid is the same way. (Water is, I believe, the only exception.)

 

We went round and round on this a couple of months back. The discussion went nowhere because no one could agree on what cars were "comparable." One could argue that the Echo is not a fair comparison because it is so much lighter; another could counter that most or all of that extra weight of the Prius comes from the extra components that make it a hybrid.

Now, however, we have some truly comparable cars to compare: the Highlander and Lexus hybirds. In both cases Toyota chose not to skimp on the ICE; indeed, one could argue that the comparison is slightly in favor of the traditional ICE car since the hybrid models generate a little more horsepower. Anyone have numbers on those? When CR tested the traditional Highlander they got 22 mpg on their 150-mile trip; with the Lexus RX330 they got 21 mpg. Anyone know how the hybrid models have scored for reviewers in "real world" tests?

 

What ever happened to checking facts? Telling two sides of a story so the reader can draw their own conclusions? Journalism is about as accurate as the federal budget.

 

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There is more than one error in the article. The statement about gasoline being denser in the AM is unfounded. It's true gasoline will be slightly denser at cooler temperatures, however the gas going past the meter on the pump is at the temperature of the underground holding tank. The flow is much to fast for it to change before it gets through it. This temperature does not change at different times of day. There are other reasons it makes sense to fill up in the evening, or when cooler though.

 

what a bunch of crap...

gas is all alike here. i know someone who delivers gas for about half the stations in the area. and unleaded regular is all the same. no additives are added from the pipeline that goes through here.

 

He might have been comparing the Honda Civic hybrid to the ICE Honda Civic or the Honda Accord hybrid to the ICE Honda Accord.

Would it be cheaper to just get the cheapest gas and add an occasional bottle of cleaner?

 

Here is the link to the editorial in the 'truth about cars' web site.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/content/1...08113434428318/

I don't know why this source is considered authoritative about cars - but I am not a car buff.

My 'alternative' to the Prius was an Accord 4 cylinder, where I was hoping for a maximum MPG of 34 - and my lifetime MPG (1 year) is 48.5.

Also, just for the heck of it, here is the review from the truth about cars of the Prius:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/content/1...08070490937779/

ukeright:

 

Robert Farago wrote the review on the Prius and I wonder if he did more than casually drive it once around the block. His Power Up sequence is certainly amusing. Anybody know why he poked the P button after Power Up??

He also reviewed the Chrylser 300C SRT-8 and just gushed praise for it. He *loved* the styling, but no mention of fuel economy. So he's a boob.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(oxnardprof\";p=\"82658)</div>

it is??... i never considered it a source for anything and after reading their review, now i know why

 

Guys-
We're in the minority. America still wants plenty of horsepower under the hood, whether they use it or not. Even though the huge majority of miles are driven on commutes or on the highway at a constant speed, the public feels a need to be able to escape danger or boredom with pure V8 acceleration. We were raised to be proud of the newest, more powerful, American made and fascinating cars from Detroit. Our parents were impressed by that new powerful shiny car on the showroom floor and by association we were too. Those cars of our youth were much slower than the slow cars of today but that is beside the point.

The problem lies in our connection to the feeling of pride and accomplishment that we get from owning a big, powerful, expression of our power over the forces of nature. The more it can do, the more powerful we feel. Need a little pick me up? Punch it. Want to feel self sufficient? Look at what we can haul. Want to feel like a good provider? Pile the family and half of what you own into the suburban and think back to those family trips in the station wagon with dear old Dad. Wouldn't he be proud of you now? But wait. He fit five kids in the station wagon and you only have two in the urban assault vehicle. Now don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to get in the way of you psychological well being on wheels. Or am I?

This is a generational issue similar to the one Moses faced. The golden calf that we worship was crafted in the 50s and 60s and we will need 40 years of wandering in the desert to purge it from our collective psyche. In the meantime, we will commute to work in bumper to bumper traffic and think back to that simpler time of our youth, when we looked forward to the release of the new cars and dreamed to own one and when we get that buried pang of longing that having to wait caused us in our youth, we will press the brake firmly, push the gas a little to rev the engine, load up the drive train and say vroom vroom, as we sit behind the stopped car in front of us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore\";p=\"82759)</div>

Ray:

I always thought it had to do with the secret hidden fear built into the collective male subconscious: the fear that the guy next to you has a far larger reproductive organ than you do.

So by extension if the car you're driving is very powerful, so are you. Even better is a giant pickup or SUV: we're supposed to get the impression that the guy behind the wheel is large, powerful, hairy, and built like a racehorse.

Conversely, if you drive some "tiny" car, then by deduction you're a tiny, scrawny, poorly-equipped guy who won't be able to mate. Even worse is the hidden assumption that you just might be - gasp - a homosexual. I wish I knew where *that* assumption came from, it sure isn't logical.

Oddly enough, a lot of women if presented with a huge hairy guy who usually has a peabrain, and an educated tiny scrawny guy, appear to chose the tiny scrawny guy. Especially if the tiny scrawny guy has a Ph.D., several patents, his own company, and never earns one penny under $375,000 a year. Gotta be practical too.

Funny thing is, I have a *lot* more luck with the Prius than I ever did with the GMC. Seriously, it's a great pickup line:

"Oh, that's a *very* interesting car! Does it get *big* fuel economy?"

"Hop in baby, let's find out ..."

The Canadian writer David Booth referred to the entire economy car movement as "enviro-weenies" and this Robert Farago has written columns along the same lines. So I guess by association that most Europeans are also "enviro-weenies" since they drive practical economical cars?

I used to do a lot of heavy towing while building the hobby farm home, so I sort of rationalized buying that GMC Sierra with towing package and 4.10 gears. Once that need went away, I ditched that thing ASAP and got the Prius.

After having lived with my Prius for over 8 months, there is no way in h*** I would go back to driving a full-size long pickup truck in city traffic. You have got to be joking. Even if the Prius didn't have the fuel economy, it sure has the ease of parking.

Getting serious again: I fear that many ill-informed readers will look at that crap (The weird power-up sequence Farago used, the "raised floor" to "accommodate" the motor and battery, etc) and actually believe it. That crap will of course reinforce their fears and stereotypes.

I'm not saying a person shouldn't be allowed to drive whatever they please. If a person wants to drive something that gets 10 MPG, more power to them. But if they bitch and moan about what it costs to fill the tank, I'll smack 'em.

Jay