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Our solar results - 4 months

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by pyccku, Mar 1, 2009.

  1. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    It's been a while since I've visited the forum, but in that time we've been running our PV system for 4 months. It's a 6K system that went into service October 16. Our usage is (hopefully) going to be around 10,000kWh/year, and the PV system should supply a pretty big chunk of it.

    Keep in mind that of course we get much less sunlight during the winter months and so these numbers will be on the low end - I expect that when the sun comes up at 5am and sets at 8pm, we're going to see a big jump in output!

    APS does differentiate between on and off peak hours. So far we've had an excess of on peak produced and fallen short on the off peak produced for each month - but heck, it's only $3/month for our off-peak usage, so I won't complain!

    Oct 16-Nov 15 - produced 274 peak, 91 off-peak, used 120 peak, 302 off peak, excess of 154 peak hours credited.

    Nov 16-Dec 15 - produced 334 peak, 160 off-peak, used 102 peak, 304 off peak, excess of 232 peak hours credited.

    Dec 16-Jan 15 - produced 388 peak, 138 off-peak, used 81 peak, 286 off peak, excess of 307 peak hours credited.

    Jan 16-Feb 15 - produced 480peak, 210 off-peak, used 88 peak, 302 off peak, excess of 392 peak hours credited.

    So far we've produced 2075kWh total, and used 1717kWh during that time period. We have 1085 extra on-peak and fell short by 595 off-peak hours.

    During the summer I expect to produce more, but we'll also use a lot more peak hours to run the a/c. We keep it pretty warm in the house (82 during peak hours), and hopefully the credit we're building up will offset quite a bit of the peak we'll have to use during the summer.

    Our original usage before the solar was 14-15,000kWh/year. We made some changes to conserve as much as we could and it did make a big difference. Even so, our summer usage is likely to be above 1000kWh/month.

    Our monthly bill has been right under $20 - $3 is for the electricity, everything else is for the administrative stuff and taxes. In all, we're pretty happy with our system.
     
  2. blamy

    blamy Member

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    I'm curious; what does a system like that cost / what does it look like / where do you get something like that / how do you hook up to the local grid and what kind of red tape can one expect to encounter. Pictures would be great! Thanks.
     
  3. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    We spent $37,000 out of pocket - $8000 was for the patio extension and the rest for the solar. APS kicked in $19,000.

    You can see pictures here: http://www.lovebugsphotography.com/blog/?s=solar

    We used a local company, they took care of everything - all the paperwork, planning, permits, etc. No red tape at all.
     
  4. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    I assume that your $29k was net, after tax credits and rebates,,, yes?

    6 kw sytem gross of ~$48k sounds about right,,,,$8/watt.

    As as I have suggested before,, grid tied PV runs $8-10 watt,,, 5 for the panels and inverters, 3 for installation. permits etc.

    (I have seen panels from reputable manufacturers close to $3.25 lately from reputable dealers.)

    Icarus
     
  5. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    $29K was after rebate, not tax credit - so more like $26K after credits. Our situation is somewhat complicated as we also have a home-based business. So part of the improvements can be deducted each year as well.
     
  6. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    Nice package. Welcome to the group of us who were wise beyond our years and invested in solar!! Sounds like you will have a surplus at the end of the year. Is the power company going to cut you a check for your excess contribution to the grid??
     
  7. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    I don't think we'll have a surplus. Once we get to the summer months, I think we'll probably fall short by 100-250kWh each month depending upon the heat. The a/c takes a huge chunk of electricity, I'm assuming we'll be making around 1000kwh/month during the summer, but using 1200/month or so.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    pyccu, how old is your AC? If it's more than 15 years, it's likely you can benefit energy wise, from a newer central air compresser. For example, a mid 1980's built AC will use twice as much energy as a comparably sized new unit, whether you have a 2, 3, or 4 ton unit. That's one of the last things WE need to do. California sued years ago, to force manufacturers to post their "seer" rating (seasonal energy efficiency ratio ... based on a unit's performance when outside temps hit 95 degrees) on all their central AC units. We've only got a seer 10, and I believe new units in many areas must have a seer rating of 14 or higher.
     
  9. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    Unless it is a new system with an ECM blower, it is probably wasting a lot of juice. My system is 1994 vintage, SEER 12 claimed but I suspect it is running at about half that efficiency, maybe less looking at the previous owner's cooling bills and mine (which were half as much.) I believe the evaporator coil is very dirty and that is my primary target for Spring. Hopefully it will boost the effective SEER to something approaching nameplate. However, the system uses a standard 1 horsepower blower and that is very inefficient. An ECM blower running at higher efficiency and lower speed would knock at least 1,000 kwh/year off of my electrical demand. I need the blower running through most of the Summer to circulate cool air from the lower level to the levels above...doing this is what cut a lot of my AC bill relative to the previous owner's I believe. Even with an energy hog of a blower like mine, it's still much cheaper than the AC compressor running.
     
  10. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Congrats! We're on year 5 with our panels. Southern Cal Edison is really retarded though. With net metering, they tally the cost annually, but we still have to pay a service or connection fee which is not written off against the net energy. So every month, we have to pay 69 cents(via bank bill pay). Our annual energy costs are about $40-50 a year.
     
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    It's not retardedness ... it's actually greedy shrewdness. SCE always LIKES their PV customers to fork over yearly surpluss juice to them at no cost. Didn't voters try to pass a proposition recently to force Edison to pay (at least a discount rate) for surpluss power?
     
  12. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    Our a/c is pretty good - our house was built in 2005, so the a/c is a fairly new unit.

    The problem is that it gets into the 110's here for long periods of time and any a/c is going to need a lot of juice when it's that hot!
     
  13. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    Can you put awnings on your windows? You guys are in an HOA that prevents evap coolers, right? If you can't do awnings, what about low E treatments? (or do you already have one of these?). Do you know what SEER your AC is?
     
  14. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    We can't have a cooler due to the roof and the HOA.

    We did put solar shades on all of our windows - that was part of how we cut the big usage last year. Since the patio extension for the solar, the entire back side of the house is also shaded from the sun.

    I think we've done as much as we can to bring usage down to right around what the solar will produce. We were averaging 14-15,000kWh per year. Putting the timer on the thermostat and the window shades and getting a new energy-efficient refrigerator and changing the bulbs throughout the house has brought us down to about 10,000kWh/year.

    I don't remember off the top of my head what the SEER was, but I do remember that we looked into replacing it last year - the SEER was high enough that it didn't make sense to do so.
     
  15. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    With your AC being a 2005 there is likely little improvement to be had in system replacement.
     
  16. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    It would make no economic sense to replace a 2005 central A/C. Unless it's already acting up, that's a different situation
     
  17. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    I repeat my feelings about HOAs! Better to ask forgiveness than permission. Convince the HOA that energy efficiency is "patriotic" and that any HOA board that limits energy ef choices is letting the terrorists win! See how that goes over!

    Icarus
     
  18. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    It's not really the HOA thing keeping us from getting a cooler. We did look into it - had three different cooler companies come out and they all told us the same thing - with the type roof we have, it's not possible to put a cooler up there. And it wouldn't be efficient to do a ground-mounted one.

    We did really want one, and were disappointed to find out it wasn't really possible.

    Our HOA did send us a letter saying our modifications were not approved, it was about 1 month after we turned it on. Our solar people got in touch with them and told them it was a solar system and they really couldn't do anything about it. They were very nice about it, as soon as they heard that everything was fine.

    The HOA used to be really picky - having people drive around and look for weeds, etc. Now we have enough foreclosures in the neighborhood that they're spending their money on something else - maybe gardeners to pull the weeds in the empty houses or something. I can't really complain too much about them, they haven't been too bad as far as HOAs go.
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    pyccu,
    I note your 4 month 'startup' date puts your Solar beginning around December '08. Prior to your start up, did you consider holding off the PV start-up until January? I ask because the Fed's now grant a 30% tax credit as of 2009. Although our construction was nearly 95% complete in November, we let our PV application deliberatly laps (both with the power company as well as the county's building permit department) so that we could re-apply in 2009 under the more favorable incentives. It'll save us around $15K. I suppose if you're retired and under a fixed income you'd never use up the credit ... even with one year carry-over allowed.
     
  20. pyccku

    pyccku Happy Prius Driver

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    We actually started up October 16. We did look into holding off until after Jan 1, but our solar installers were carrying the rebate for us - so they said unless we could give them the $19,000 to cover it, that we needed to turn it on earlier so they could get reimbursed. We would have preferred to wait, but since it's a small company and we didn't have $19K sitting in the bank, we turned it on.


    I have a meeting with a CPA in a couple of weeks to determine how the rebate works with the home office thing...it's not really clear in the IRS brochures about when residential and business use are happening in the same building...