I would buy a Prius, but.....

I consider myself a bit of an audiophile and I can't understand how anyone can complain about the Prius audio system being not up to par and not having a connection for their ipod or other lossy digital format music player du jour. I bought the BC for the JBL system and I have to say it isn't too bad. I mostly listen to Rock and Jazz and the low ends are okay, not great. My favorite artists allow tapings of their concerts. The tape traders have migrated to The Internet using lossless digital formats that are far superior than anything that can be found in an mp3. The only way I can transfer these off of my PC is to convert to .wav and make audio CDs. The six disc changer was ideal for my music collection.

You'll find that your own routines will change slightly after owning the Prius. How you get your music to your car may be one of them. There are also aftermarket upgrades that will allow hookups.

As for the car itself, I think you will feel claustrophobic because of the large windshield and the overall headroom. The Prius needs to be an automatic transmission-like system because of its design that generates the superior gas mileage while minimizing emissions. It's not the perfect car, but it's better than anything else I've driven.

I think the best reason to buy a car is to do it when it makes economic sense to you. Our economy is based on planned obsolescence. Eventually, a car is more costly to keep on the road than buying a new (or new to you) car. If the maintenance costs of your current car (payment+gas+repairs+ties+et al.) is more costly than the new car payment+maintenance, then make the purchase.

 

dont buy a Prius... it doesnt have what you want

 

There are some owners that have had aftermarket moon/sun roofs installed on their Prius. Again, there are iPod accessories that you can get for the car to interface it with the Prius (I have not heard of any cars that are iPod friendly). I thought someone found a mod for the iPod into the prius you just have to do some searching.

The speaker system is not that bad although probably not the best if you want you can dump a couple of grand into the car and put really good speakers in it. You can also install dynamat to reduce the noise so you can hear your speakers better if you want (I am doing my entire car but for different reasons).

Turbodiesel hybrid - yeah I would love that option also. Although Diesel costs the same as premium around here so not sure it would be cost effective unless you get double the MPG.

Digital layout - ugly, yeah a bit but I just turn it down so I can barely see it (no glare and it does not stand out). Use battery, yes but does not affect your MPG. it is minor power draw compare to everything else.

There is no manual transmission because you cannot shift this type of engine efficiently or properly. It does not have the traditional 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Want control? Don't get married or get cats. (My cats, wife, and kid don't listen to me, so I have to boss around the dog)

As for the car costs including maintenance, insurance, purchase costs, and fuel it costs me about $17 per day or $0.64 per mile but then I only drive about 800 miles a month. Insurance costs me about $378 for 6 mo and I paid MSRP at 4.2% interest for 60 mo. My wife drives twice as much and is at $16 per day and $0.32 per mile.

I went from a F250 to the Prius so it was quite a culture shock on my system. I have driven nothing but trucks since I started driving. But I got used to it and now enjoy it. No car is perfect but the only gripes I have are few and minor.

With that said the Prius is not for everyone. Looking at your last paragraph you are not going to be happy with the car. If you want a hybrid go get the Honda Accord/Civic if you want a normal looking car or the Insight, but I do not think they hold a candle to the Prius. If you are looking for fuel economy in an ICE get the Echo. If I were you I would go see if you can rent one for a week to try it out.

 

People have added a sunroof, there are threads here with pictures and prices. You take a MPG hit with greater aerodynamic drain. I love sunroofs, but won't be getting one and understand why it's not offered as a factory option.

Lots of people use their IPOD with the Prius. Lots of threads and different things you can do. Many cars lack an aux input, even on aftermarket radios this is a special feature. On the premium JBL, there is a casette deck - I was surprised to see it, but it makes an easy (albeit lower quality) way to use sat radio, ipod, whatever.

Unless you have a car custom built for you, it's unlikely any car will have 100% what you want. I've always said I'll never buy another car w/o heated seats, but I like the Prius better than the heated seat cars, so here I am. I love driving stick but Prius is fun to drive in different ways. Since it doesn't ever shift, I don't feel I lost the "control" I had with the stick.

 

I want to approach this one topic at a time.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChrisWN\";p=\"82845)</div>

The prius has a lot of greenhouse space on it. The seating position is upright and you feel as if you have a commanding view of the road. When I sit behind my mid 80s econobox which I still own I feel like I'm sitting in a hole. I don't think that you will feel claustrophobic in it. I certainly don't.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChrisWN\";p=\"82845)</div>

Replacing the stereo in the Prius is problematic at best. It is fully integrated into the vehicle's interface. I suppose that if you are used to using a gimmicky :| post manufacturer stereo head unit the one in the Prius is not very impressive. However sound quality is very good, not the best, but not the worst by any means. The base model radio is nothing to get excited about, but the JBL is a nice upgrade and I find it more than enough for my listening needs. If you go for a Prius, you will need an RF adapter for your iPod. That will work well until somebody designs a cradle for the iPod where you can control it through the vehicle interface. You might want to know that XM radio is available aftermarket for the Prius. Installation is a bit involved, but the usage of the Prius factory interface to control XM is brilliant and from what I have seen, well done. if XM can be integrated into the Prius interface, then it is a matter of time until a third party does the same for the iPod.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChrisWN\";p=\"82845)</div>

If you are in the market for wheels now, then now is the time to start taking the purchase seriously. Hybrid technology is continuing to evolve. Toyota is at the top of the development curve. Ford isn't far behind and Honda is out in left field, as usual (yes, I know there are those that would rake me over the coals for that comment, but IMA isn't very impressive compared to THS/HSD).

Cars are like computers, you can continue to wait for the technology development curve to cool off, however if you use that logic you would have decided to purchase a computer in 1984 and not have purchased one until last year because the technology was evolving too quickly.

Anyway, I would encourage you to delve into the technical documentation surrounding the Prius. Once you do that you will understand why there is no manual option. It wouldn't make sense, and it wouldn't work correctly. This isn't a regular automatic anyway, without the power split device and the 2 motor/generators, the system wouldn't work. The power split device is the reason this system works the way it does and is why it work so well.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ChrisWN\";p=\"82845)</div>

The bar accrues the back window is not all that annoying. I have never figured out why people obsess over their rear view. When you are looking through the mirror you aren't looking for detail about the road behind you, you are looking to see if stuff is there, and where it is. Anyway, the rear window is very much like the old Honda CRX, and that worked out well for lots of folks at that time. This works today.

The GUI for the interface is simple, easy to use and not a distraction. Now, I'm a huge Apple fan, but their interface is simple and easy to use also, but in a different context. Apple's interface is complex enough because of the complexities of the computer you are using, but simple enough to be intuitive and graceful. Well, if you are judging the interface on the Prius it meets these same goals, it is intuitive and graceful, thus simple. The buttons are large and the text is large because you want it to be large and easy to read and understand when you are doing 70 down a 6 lane highway.

We've covered the lack of a manual because it wouldn't work with HSD. As for electronic features, this is a mass-produced proof of concept product. Toyota is using this vehicle to prove to the market that they can make a highly computerized hybrid vehicle, mass-produce it, and have it run reliably and economically. The electronic features are all designed to work inside the available power systems on the vehicle. Battery drain is not an issue, for either the HV battery or the 12v aux battery.

This is a fun car. It is fun to drive, it is fun to show off, and it is very utilitarian. I honestly believe that the things which you are making priorities in your vehicle purchase are inappropriate barriers which are causing you to pass up what is probably the best engineered vehicle built in the history of automobiles.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(montolchik\";p=\"82859)</div>

FYI, you could also use Apple's iTunes to export your tunes to an iPod using Apple's "lossless encoder". The files are about 50% as large as a wav file with no loss of quality (at least that's the claim).

 

If you have reservations, don't buy the car. It's a lot of money if you're not sure and nobody wants an unhappy buyer!! Probably no car will meet your expectations but there's lots of models to choose from so you'd probably find something you like eventually.

-Prius brakes don't wear going down hills, at least not like regular brakes. You can rest on them to slow the vehicle but you'll be regenerating using the motors and the brakes remain cool and not even touching. They will only come into play if you step on them hard, stopping below regen threshold, about 8MPH (?), or your battery is completely charged with 8 bars. If you read the forums here, you'll see this is a rare event only possible through regeneration from a big hill and most of us never see 8 bars. If you want to "downshift" you can use B anytime you want, its similar to shifting to a lower gear for braking (thou no difference once you hit the gas). MPG goes down just like downshifting a regular trans. Lots of Prius owners live in SFO and lots live with hills & mountains. If this is a concern for you prob. go on a test drive and pick some really steep streets.

-"Electronic Extras" - Electronics are all over the cars these days, and probably a good reason cars are more reliable. Automakers would have more electic components on regular cars if 12V systems could handle it, for reliability and design considerations. It's expected cars will soon come out with higher voltge systems to run things like eelectric power steering, pumps, etc. Electric has fewer moving parts and can be easier to design than a mechanical belt system. Does anyone want a new car with a carboreatur and no ECU?

-Prius is not only reliable, it is more reliable than ANY other Toyota & Honda as reported by Consumer Reports! More so than Camry, Corolla, Civic, Maxima (Sentra got killed) Only two reported models were better than Prius, a Lexus and Mitsubishi SUV, and the Land Cruiser tied for reliability (okay guess Prius didn't beat ALL the Toyotas). If the extra electronics are bringing the car down, its not showing it. The Classic Prius has a great history as well.

MINI is a cool car & I love it. Not practical as my only car especially since I use my car only when I need to hall stuff. If it's just me I take the train.

 

Power steering doesn't use or require high voltage. In the Prius, it is a 12v system. Other cars have them too. Only the A/C compressor and DC/DC converter are sourced by high voltage, besides the MGs of course.

 

You are correct.. 12V electic PS is available but uncommon. The higher voltage systems predicted for the future will allow the migration to electic to continue. Without greater efficiency 12V will hit a ceiling on how much effectively can be added.

 

Chris,

With all due respect, this is where I had encouraged you to delve into the technical aspects of this vehicle. The Prius has neither an automatic or manual transmission. Instead there is a grapefruit sized planetary gear set connecting all of the drive components together, 3 of them: ICE, MG1, MG2. The computer system manages all three of these components in such a way that they operate at the most efficient individual operating speed for the requested ground speed or acceleration desire, as communicated to the computer via the accelerator pedal.

Toyota provides engine braking, like running in lower gear, which is more appropriate for the vehicle as it doesn't have stepping gear ratios like a conventional auto or manual. I do not find myself using the B option on the drive selector that often. However, it is very effective, just as effective as dropping down into a lower gear.

Regenerative braking is one of the little engineering brilliances about this car. If I am driving defensively and a number of seconds ahead of my current position, I anticipate lights and the movement of other vehicles and start to coast toward a red or slower/stopped vehicle and then apply the brake gently but firmly as I become closer to the stop. If you do not mash the pedal too hard, the actual friction brakes are not slowing you down, but one of the MGs is turned into a generator and the vehicle uses electrical resistance as a brake, the kinetic energy of the moving vehicle is absorbed, in part by a generator and you gain some return charge to your battery just by braking. Pads are only used at very low speeds, such as in parking lots and below about 7mph, toward the end of a stop. This means longer brake life, greater overall braking power, and a great deal of control on steep hills.

In short, most of what you believe about how a car is to perform goes out the window with this vehicle. It drives like anything else out there, but the way it executes a stop or acceleration or changing gear ratios to achieve a ground speed is new and different, and I would argue, better.

Don't come at this decision with preconceptions about how this vehicle is supposed to work, instead try to wipe the slate clean and find out how it works in its own right.

 

if your in the Ca high desert area, i could refer you to some one who could give you a good deal on one.

M.J.