I Have Money and I'm Spending It, Darn It

As you may know, I used to provide consulting to the wastewater treatment and potable water treatment industry. It bugs me to no end that folks happily piss away $$$ on useless trinkety crap, but could care less about ancient hidden infrastructure

Eg: water distribution pipes that are literally rotting out and leaking. Folks think "so what, water is cheap" but they fail to realize that if potable water pipes leak, organics from the soil are also finding their way in. Hence more residual chlorine dosing necessary just to deal with that, hence more THM's in the water, hence more chance of cancer, etc etc

Did I mention our priorities are completely nice person-backwards?

 

wildkow;

i agree, in some parts of Cali, an assault rifle is a good idea... just let me know if you plan on moving to WA.

as far as Christmas, sure its massive waste on a grandiose scale that only Americans can appreciate. if you need proof, i will take a pic of the overflowing garbage cans on the pickup day after the holidays.

its really funny, that there is two types of presents. the expensive serious ones that you give your loved ones and then the trinkets that you pass around to your co-workers.
the latter, i have refused to participate in for years.

and to help with the retail sector, i always buy toys in the name of my kids to donate to the local toy run in our area for less fortunate. but to be honest with ya,

i dont consider that an extra expense. at least it isnt the way i do it. i dont get carried away like some people i know. i have controlled my desire to quadruple my electric bill or spend $15,000 on decorations. for me, the holidays is more about food, family gatherings, etc...

presents we adults stopped passing around a few years ago. we just get for the kids. pot luck for us.

 

wildkow;

i agree, in some parts of Cali, an assault rifle is a good idea... just let me know if you plan on moving to WA.

as far as Christmas, sure its massive waste on a grandiose scale that only Americans can appreciate. if you need proof, i will take a pic of the overflowing garbage cans on the pickup day after the holidays.

its really funny, that there is two types of presents. the expensive serious ones that you give your loved ones and then the trinkets that you pass around to your co-workers.
the latter, i have refused to participate in for years.

and to help with the retail sector, i always buy toys in the name of my kids to donate to the local toy run in our area for less fortunate. but to be honest with ya,

i dont consider that an extra expense. at least it isnt the way i do it. i dont get carried away like some people i know. i have controlled my desire to quadruple my electric bill or spend $15,000 on decorations. for me, the holidays is more about food, family gatherings, etc...

presents we adults stopped passing around a few years ago. we just get for the kids. pot luck for us.

 

If we cut back say 10-20% on buying unneeded items or useless trinkets, like owning two automobiles, how do we prevent the world economy from collasping and millions from straving? Just curious? I don't think even in this world wide economic downturn that we have cutback but a few percent and look how things are now.

Wildkow

 

We need to radically alter our economic paradigm. One of the disastrous weaknesses of consumer capitalism is that in order for people to have food and shelter they must have money; for that they must have jobs; but for them to have jobs there must be a market for the goods those jobs produce; and for there to be a market people must purchase/consume stuff; but for people to purchase they need jobs.

This circle becomes a spiral because in a capitalist economy, a certain part of the total production is taken by the non-productive investor class.

Remember back in the 1960's when automation was the new thing, and the futurists were saying that with automation, people would only need to work eight or ten hours a week to produce everything we need? What went wrong with that? I'll tell you what went wrong: The increased production went to the owners, not to the workers. When productivity doubles, rather than halving the workers' hours for the same pay, the owners keep the workers at the same hourly pay and the owners take a double profit.

The solution is that we should stop producing crap, and we should stop allowing people to be super-rich and have private jets and yachts and multi-million-dollar mansions, and instead put the excess labor power into re-building our infrastructure for a sustainable economy, and then limit our production to a comfortable lifestyle level, and distribute goods in an equitable fashion (wherein a garbageman gets the same pay as a bank president, because what he does is just as important) and if we produce all the food and shelter we need and a few added comforts using less than the available labor, then everyone gets to work fewer hours.

The thing is, our present paradigm is unsustainable. It's going to collapse, if not in the present crisis, then in another in the near future. Adapt or die. It applies to animals in nature, and it applies to our economic system.

 

In the short term were can divert our spending on useless trinkets to spending on needed infrastructure. We literally have trillions of dollars of delayed infrastructure projects. Jayman's example of our crumbling waste water infrastructure is only one example. The majority of our infrastructure in the US is 40 to 50 years old!

The automobile needs to be replaced by rail. It is by far the most efficient way to move people and passengers. Spain is currently budgeting $105 billion Euro to lay 6000 miles of high-speed rail by 2020. The goal is to for 90% of the Spanish population to be within 30 miles of a station by 2020. (The first leg from Madrid to Seville arrives on time 98% of the time) Spain's new high speed trains threaten domestic airline | World news | The Guardian

Considering that the US has 46,000 miles of interstate highways, we could easily spend trillions of dollars to create a similar system. Add a light-rail system for every city of 100,000 and I can't see that we would have problems with spending too little money. Considering that the originally planned interstate system took from 1956 to 1992 to complete it is not like the automobile will disappear overnight. It will be a gradually process with more and more transportation migrating from roads to rail. The key is to get started.


As to the original OP. Yes, we are still spending money even with me being laid off and the resulting loss of 60% of the family income. The key was that we have always planned our standard of living on the lower of the two incomes so we are OK with one income. We are also still putting money into the stock market though at a reduced rate. Now my wife is only maxing out her 401K, last year we also maxed out a Roth IRA for each of us.

We will still be going on vacations:

• BMW motorcycle rally in May (4 Days)
• BMW national motorcycle rally in June (5 Days)
• Glacier National Park in August (9 Days)

We are still saving for a big trip next year for our 10th anniversary. That will be a 21 day motorcycle tour from Slovenia to Greece.

We have cut back in other ways. Our food bill is much less than it was. We were spending $500 to $600 a month in restaurants (almost every lunch, and 3-4 dinners) because of our crazy schedule. Now with me home, we only eat out about twice a week and the rest of the meals I make from scratch. (I'm baking bread as I type this)

Our commuting costs have drop. I was driving 650 miles per week and buying a tank of diesel every week. That also involved a set of tires every year and a service every 3 months. Now my car only moves once week or so and I'm thinking of selling it. (I still have my motorcycle which was my only commuting vehicle for 3 years so I won't be without transportation.)

I'm doing things around the house so that is a big savings too. I'll be painting the trim myself instead of paying for it to be done. I'm doing stained concrete, bamboo, and tile flooring in the kitchen, living room, foyer respectively. I'm also stripping and refinishing a bedroom suite that was damaged doing our move. These are all things that have low material costs but high labor costs.

The cable went immediately when I was laid off. The cell phones will go in May when my contract is up. We will be using our land-line at $0.05 per minute for long distance and pre-paid cell phones at $0.07 per minute. That is a savings of $100 per month between the TV and phone.

So all in all it is a mix. We are still saving and spending in some areas, while cutting back on others.

 

We go to work to get the cash to buy the food to get the strength to go to work to get the cash......

 

That's it. I'm going to stop eating.

Tom

 

We just got our HELOC, which pays off our original mortgage, and will save us 30K over the life of the mortgage...
We are using some of the money to make major 'curb value' improvements, which will increase the amount we can ask for the house in a couple of years when the housing market here gets tight. We are building our fence, putting in the garden, etc.

We scaled our spending back when I quit my job the first time. I went back to work to pay for our cruise addiction, and now that I'm off work again, we just won't book another one for awhile... though the fares for cruises are CHEAP now!!

Our only real addiction, is books. And I'm working hard at utilizing the public library more.

 

I'm not sure that's a good idea. That was just a quote from a book I read awhile ago, and certainly not meant to be taken literally. I'm not a socialist, but when I look at our economic system from a distance, I can see the cycle that Daniel describes. I understand that this very thing drives our economic growth, but I can't help but see a lot of people, myself included, that value 'stuff' more than their time.

 

So, if we stop our crazy spending and actually - horrors - *save* money, the global economy will spiral into collapse?

At one time, a few generations ago, we were a country of thrifty folks who saved for a rainy day. The economy was smaller, but also much more "real" in the sense we didn't have this 30:1 leveraged bank bullshit.

I want us to get away from credit, and return to days of only buying stuff we really need. I've lived my entire life debt free by being very frugal and only getting stuff I could afford. Thus, no mortgage debt, no credit card debt (I use credit cards but pay them off every month), no car loans, etc

I'm not sure how we can expect to make 10-30% a year on little pieces of paper that are magically traded around with other little pieces of paper. There is no intrinsic value in that. It's the ultimate Ponzi scheme.

For now, this massive borrowing against the future may temporarily boost the "economy" as we know it. It won't last, we could very well sink into hyperinflation.

 

The high-speed (AVE) train in Spain is wonderful, but there is a mistake and a misleading comment in the article linked above. The AVE does not go 220 mph. I believe the high-speed trains in France do, but the AVE goes about 100 mph or just a little faster. It's around 250 miles from Madrid to Seville, and the trip takes just under 2 hours and 25 minutes. Barcelona is about 50 miles farther, and they give the trip time as 2:35. I've not taken that train, but I took the AVE between Madrid and Seville many times.

And the 98% on-time rating is misleading, because they're counting one minute late as not on time. The latest I ever arrived on that train was two minutes early!!! And by the way, if it's 5 minutes late, it's free!!! Can the airline match that??? Hell, no! Iberia Air has one of the worst late-arrival records in the airline industry, and Barajas airport (Madrid) is vastly too small, worsening the problem.

Spaniards will abandon Iberia in droves once they can take the AVE to Barcelona, just as now they take it to Seville.

The cook on the dolphin boat on my last trip is from Slovenia. She waxes eloquent about how beautiful Slovenia is, and how friendly, and is emphatic that it's an absolutely wonderful place to visit.

Do be sure to let us know how that trip goes.

 

Anthropologists used to think that "primitive" peoples spent all their time scrounging for food. But these days we understand more, and it is realized that tribal hunter-gatherer societies actually spent relatively little time getting food and making their necessities, and had a great deal of leisure time. And without a ruling class / worker class split, everyone had a lot of leisure time. And you don't need ATVs and video games to enjoy leisure time. The best games and amusements require only imagination and companionship. Modern medicine and sanitation have greatly extended our lifespan, but most of what "modernity" has given us serves mainly to degrade our quality of life. If we could keep medicine and sanitation and central heating, and dump the rest of modern technology and industry, we'd probably be better off.

I guess I'm a semi-neo-Luddite. I don't want to abandon the things that really do make life better, and technology has given us a few such things. But most of what you can buy in the store makes life worse.

 

My thoughts exactly. If our economy is so heavily dependent on frivolous spending, then it deserves to collapse. Currently, personal debt equals GDP. We would be much better served by a slower growing, but ultimately more stable economy based on tangible, durable goods rather than puffed up retail sales figures. After this latest economic downturn, large scale conspicuous consumption should hereafter always be the harbinger of a bubble that will soon burst. In the future, if you suddenly realize that everyone on the block has two new cars, a McMansion with a pool, etc., that should be all the signal you need to get the hell out of the market because collapse is unavoidable.

The American dream should be stable growth, and a citizenry unencumbered by personal debt - not necessarily a Hummer and a five bedroom house. I don't know how to achieve this other than an education that focuses on critical thinking. Critical thinking is key to people realizing they just don't need all that shit they see on TV. Separating want from need is incredibly difficult. I struggle with it myself. The US economy is based on the conflation of want and need, and many have a vested interest in blurring the line between the two.

 

That comment right there is why we are screwed blue. Our "edumacashun" system has been so dumbed down, we are turning out 18 year olds with 5 year old brains

 

Bunny* you people spend a lot of money. I had a tough time unclenching my butt 18 months ago to buy HDVT and a new PC last year and that was only because the old ones blew up.

I spend a few hundered each month on a lawn service(really a brown patch now) and pool service and I haven't fired them because of the economic downturn so I'm contributing some to American employment.

My girth has been increasing since I had shoulder surgery so maybe I'll buy some new pants soon.


* I've had to stop saying Jesus, Christ and especially Jesus H Christ since I moved to Fl so now my exclaimation references my personal savior, The Easter Bunny.

 

All of the above is true. My wife and I did a 9 day motorcycle tour of Slovenia, Bosnia, and Croatia this past October. We stayed an extra day and did a 250 mile loop through the highest pass in Slovenia and up by the Austrian border. We were in Croatia in 2006. For 2012 we are planning a 15 day tour of Slovenia, Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Czech Republic, Austria. (See a pattern? )

 

How did she prepare the dolphin? I am picturing something with potatoes.

Tom

 

To the disappointment of some and the relief of others, she left dolphin off the menu. Something about them being too cuddly to eat. She also did not serve us white rhinoceros, shark fin soup, elephantburgers, or tiger. The food was good, but to be honest, the food at Wildquest was much better. But at Wildquest they (in my opinion) overload the boat, to the point where there's not always a comfortable place to sit. The cook at Wildquest is Czech. Did I spell that right? It looks wrong but the spell checker is not complaining. Yep. Wikipedia spells it that way. The cook on the Dolphin Expeditions boat was just a gal who can cook. The cook at Wildquest is a world-class chef. Both outfits bring in some total nut jobs as "facilitators." But the people are really nice and the dolphins don't care if there are nut jobs on the boats.

 

Not me buddy. I'm a Scrooge in a very literal sense. The last thing I worry about is spending money to impress meth-mouth nobodies.

I'd rather have a yard full of "A" grade crushed rock than pay that. In a hot climate, lawns are a pretty bad idea anyway. When I used to live in St. George and Mesquite, I had "natural" landscaping eg desert

Bunny! There is no F Bomb way I'd spend that much every month on a non-essential

Go ahead and fire them.

That's what I don't like about middle age: so easy to gain weight, but BUNNY so hard to lose weight

I'm around 5 11 and in 2006 skyrocketed up to 270 lbs. My blood sugar also went up along with the weight. Got a Bowflex and really hit it hard.

Took almost 1.5 years to get back down to 170, but at least I can claim its all muscle now, just like when I was younger. Bunny! I feel a lot better

I like it! Bunny, you're funny!