My Hymotion: What I've Learned So Far

The CCL and CDL limits should be accessible on the CAN bus, but not sure if anyone has figured out how to do this on the scangauge yet. I'm pretty sure the CAN-View can display these values. I think the open source CANTOP project can as well. Ideally you want to be able to see the CDL, CCL, and your actual current draw. That way if you keep your current draw between CCL and CDL you should never get kicked out of EV. Now keep in mind, sometimes they will be so low you can't do much about it, but at least you'd know. If I ever get time to play with CANTOP this is one of the main things I'd like to work on. Coming up with an intuitive feedback method, such as having the entire MFD slowly change from green to yellow to red as you press down the accelerator and current approaches CDL. As I recall CAN_View has a bar graph read out of Current, and a numerical readout of CCL/CDL, but no easy way to put it all together.

Rob

 

Plug In Modifications in Europe

Dear Sir!
I have just bought the Advance model of the Toyota Prius! I found the Hymotion plug in very interesting and I sent them an email.The problem is that I live in Athens-GREECE and they answered me that they do not send any module in Europe until now....Perhaps they will send it in the future.
So, can someone told me, where can I find plug in modifications in Europe???


Thank you very much!

 

Re: Plug In Modifications in Europe

I seem to recall plug-in modifications in UK. A google search may turn them up. As for being 5,000 km from service -- well, either you are very brave, or an outstanding engineer.

 

Thanks for everyone's replies -- what's written above leads to another question. Since I presumablly have the latest firmware updates including the mandatory ICE kick-in shortly after startup -- any suggestions on how i can defeat this so I stay in EV mode always? Does the EV modification help with this or does that not really make a difference since I already have the Hymotion installed? I do a number of short-hop low speed trips and it's most annoying that I have to pull over and stop for a few seconds just to get the ICE to shutoff.

 

If you make a lot of short trips you can use the Forced Stealth Modification that prevents the engine from starting period. It requires a scangauge to clear the error and you are able to drive to a maximum speed of 52 MPH. Plug-In-Supply offers this to their customers. I don't know how Hymotion would feel about the modification. Carolyn's Lucious garage sells the instructions to allow for EV under 52 MPH. The only drawback is that to start the engine you must power cycle the car.

 

Well, if you *actually* warm a battery to more optimal operating
conditions, then it isn't a "fakeout" and you wouldn't be abusing
it with high currents. Here's the paper reference that "iamian"
over on CleanMPG sent me that spells out some of it. He's been
researching a lot of stuff about Insight packs lately.
.
I thought something as simple as a 50W heating pad under the
stock battery box would do the trick, but it might also need
a bit of additional insulation around the rest to help hold that
heat in if the car's outside in brisk, cold winds overnight.
.
_H*

 

Re: Plug In Modifications in Europe

The page below lists most of the major companies offering PHEV conversions.

Prius PHEV - EAA-PHEV

The only one I'm aware of in Europe is Amberjac, but they are I believe still in the development phase and like many in that phase charging a very high price for early adoption partners. This list may not be all inclusive, there may be others out there. If you are technical at all, you could consider going with the open source do it yourself route. There is enough info out there that a technical person can probably do it completely themselves, or there are kits available now for $5-10k USD.

Rob

 

I agree. Early on people considered messing with the temperature sensors to fake the battery temperature and allow high current draw when cold. That seems like a really bad idea. However, if you actually warm up the battery then there is no faking involved and all should be well. The only trick is making sure all the battery modules are warmed evenly. If one module is still cold, but the temp sensors read warm you will likely cause that one module to fail early.

Rob

 

I have heard the Lucious Garage in San Francisco has a hack that will work with the Hymotion system. This will force EV. I don't have the details though.

 

I'm using it to give 52 MPH without engine start. The hack does cause error codes on dash, but can be cleared with Scangauge. I love the hack for short trips.

 

Hi Arthur - you can see my post about this mod on my other thread, but here is my take on your concerns (keep in mind these are educated guesses):

1) Not sure how it could be illegal except perhaps in California if CARB got involved and did not like the bypassed ICE warmup. But given that in order to run the car with the ICE, you have to stop and shut down the car and re-start, which will trigger the ICE warmup, I am not sure where they could complain about this.

2) Once again, given that the initial Hymotion software allowed for EV mode without any ICE warmup (until CARB got involved, the bastages), I do not see how Hymotion could take issue with this. I would sure hope they would stand by their product even with this mod (and I would certainly expect them to). In fact, given that this mod does not allow for the ICE to come on cold with the car at speed (as both the OEM EV mod Toyota uses in the rest of the world and on the 2010 model and the initial Hymotion software allowed), I would think this would be far less likely to cause damage or wear on the drivetrain.

3) As I noted in my separate thread, you can getyourself in trouble if you hit the button by mistake when you don't want to (like on the freeway). It would nice if there was a fail safe that would not let this mode be engaged unless the car was going say less than 45 MPH. As for damage to the car, my two concerns would be the battery packs and the electric motor (as noted above I am not concerned about the ICE at all). Toyota allows the motor to propel the car up to 42 MPH, so they deem this safe. I have no clue as to what additional wear allowing the car to go to 52 MPH using the electric motor can cause, if any. Perhaps someone else will chime in. As for the batteries, I think the same deal applies - will using the batteries at a higer speed make a difference. Clearly running the car at 50 MPH on batteries alone causes the batteries to run down faster - but does this harm them in the long term?

 

I will answer the questions to the best of my ability.

1) I have no idea, I did not ask anyone since it is my car.
2) I did not ask and I was hesistant to release the information, but I don't feel like I'm hurting the Hymotion. It shuts off when drawing too much current and/or depleted.
3) I love the modification and I hope not to damage the car.

---Kent

 

I'm sure Kent will have a better answer, but my experience so far is that only the first half of the go pedal is in play with the EV only mode. I can floor it on a flat, but it really doesn't accelerate any faster than if I just go to half pedal. Acceleration is adequate on a flat - in this format the car would be an excellent 40 mph and below EV. I actually hit 53 today and then the car ignores you.

 

Two techniques I've developed over the last 2 weeks:

1) Limiting CARB-mandated ICE warmup
I've noticed that the initial CARB-mandated ICE warmup that occurs after turning on the car is very short so I've been testing it out. At least here in our moderate Southern California morning temperatures, I've timed how long it takes for the ICE warmup phase to shutoff without moving the car (just sit and do nothing):
A. Turn on Car - 15 seconds car sits there.
B. ICE engages - stays on at most 60 seconds (sometimes less if it has just been driven)
C. ICE turns off and doesn't turn on unless needed.

So now, my wife and I do a simple exercise: turn on the car and wait exactly one minute. Sure enough the ICE is off and then we start driving with mostly the battery until we get to faster speeds. Personally, I find this easier than the enforced EV modification discussed here.

2) Avoiding ICE at speeds above 32MPH
Like others, I've found the Hymotion battery gives a good amount of juice for acceleration at the lower speeds - a lot better than even a fully charged NiMH Prius battery. I accelerate at a good clip, and then just as the speedometer hits 32MPH I glide - usually the momentum takes me to 33MPH or higher (unless uphill) and then I lightly put the gas on again using the Hymotion battery to continue acceleration. It seems to prevent the ICE from turning on at 32.5MPH like it usually does in a steady acceleration. Eventually the ICE does turn on of course, but it minimizes its use on roads with speed limits of 45MPH and lower.

Thoughts?

 

I really have only drawn too much current when the batteries are cold. When they are cold, I'm guessing that Hymotion has a current circuit that shuts down the Hymotion when drawn too quickly.

Hills are slow. When in EV mode if it is a small hill it will navigate, but you might loose some speed. I have one steep hill by my house. When I know I have to climb it I hit the button at the top of the hill allowing me to use the engine to climb.

Flooring the gas pedal has the same effect as pushing it about half way. I have noticed that a lighter touch seems to give a better acceleration. Yes, the Prius seems like a very nice golf cart when in forced EV mode.

---Kent

 

:rockon: