1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Introducing myHybridcar.com

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by JasonS, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    this is Jason Siegel, the founder of GreenHybrid.com. I'd like to introduce the all-new myHybridcar.com, which I've launched as a direct competitor to the site which I believe has been razed under the ownership of Internet Brands.

    There you'll find an easy-to-use fuel economy database and other discussion areas for consumers.

    For all your Prius needs, priuschat.com is it. For everything else, there's myHybridcar.com. I hope to see you there!
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Does it surprise you that they ran it into the ground? Will you sell this site too if it becomes successful? Is there a way to transfer 5 1/2 years of data from GH to the new database? Will we be at risk for losing our data entered at myHybridcar in a few years too?

    Yea, I'm giving you a bit of a hard time, but these are the hard questions people will have after seeing how GH became a profit machine much more than a community.
     
  3. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Evan, I'd be happy to answer your questions. They're legitimate and I owe you and others an explanation.

    Before selling the site I had several discussions with IB to find out their intentions with the site. They pitched some great ideas and offered to work with me to help bring them to realization. Unfortunately I had no idea that the company would not follow up on its proposals and that they would undermine my long and hard efforts to keep GreenHybrid on the right foot. Over the course of three years, until my contract expired, I became increasingly upset with what had happened to the community I had a hand in building but there was little I could do. I assure you this came as a complete surprise and I apologize for how things turned out.

    Considering the aforementioned experience I am not approaching this new venture with any attempt to sell. This summer I will be moving to San Jose, California, to teach at an under-resourced public school, which will put me at the very heart of the hybrid community. During my two-year commitment I hope to grow and expand myHybridcar.com so that by 2011 the site is the premier consumer resource for hybrid car information—and I would like to manage and develop it right on through the future.

    There is a way to transfer tank data directly to the new database at myHybridcar.com. However, for legal reasons I am hesitant to release this utility to the public. I will be discussing the matter with an intellectual property lawyer so that hopefully everyone can use this tool, but getting sued wouldn't be a good first step.

    You will never be at risk of losing your data at myHybridcar.com. I'm watching in horror as the Real Hybrid Mileage Database, something I was very proud of (I created it!), disintegrates. If you have data there, save save save while you can! Such problems never occurred under my ownership and they will never happen under my ownership. I'll also explore options such as allowing downloadable data of your cars.

    To Evan, and everyone else: I'm being extremely candid about the situation, here. The rise of GreenHybrid happened under my management, and the decline happened under someone else's. I'm sorry that my decision to sell had such negative repercussions but I've spent hundreds of hours and a significant amount of money already to turn it all around.

    Please join me in establishing this site we all need. I'm prepared to help provide you the friendliest, the most responsive and the easiest to use consumer resource for hybrid car information—and I'm prepared to do that for the long haul.

    I hope this answers your questions.
     
  4. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Hi Jason

    I don't know who you are but since you've come here and tried to syphon off member's, I suspect without permission, I'm beginning to form a picture. It ain't good brother, so do the right thing and ask the mods to delete this post because they have too much integrity to do it themselves, something you might learn from example. Oh by the way good luck with your new website you won't be seeing me there. :yo:

    Wildkow
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Jason,
    I put that post out, in part, as a test to you. And I very much appreciate the candid and humble reply. I do wish you would have asked Danny or my permission before posting, but we've allowed other sites to announce themselves here and we'll leave this thread as well. As you acknowledged, there's a healthy bit of skepticism. I figured out early on in the GH evolution that you saw dollar signs. I don't hold that against you...you are/were young and had a lot more vision than I did at that age. But most people in the hybrid community are looking for a community, a place that sees the promotion of hybrids, PHEVs, EVs, and any advanced auto tech as priority one. If the site can make a profit, then great. Obviously Danny is doing well w/ PC, but he always maintained the priorities and that's what's made PC great.

    I'll look at your site, and I honestly wish you luck. But forgive me if I'm gonna be a bit more hesitant to offer my all out support as I did for GH in it's earliest days.
     
  6. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Wildkow, Danny and I had spoken when I first decided to develop a new website and we both agreed myHybridcar.com was not to be a competitor to PriusChat. In fact, they're complementary and serve overlapping but separate audiences. Danny's an extremely busy person but we discussed the idea of partnering—I'll leave out the specifics—and I hope to continue that conversation soon.

    Evan, I apologize for the lack of notice because I was under the impression this forum was announcement-friendly. Thanks for letting it slide.

    Regarding money issues, with all due respect I don't think that's an appropriate topic in public forums. Such inquiries are intrusive, but more importantly I have never knowingly sacrificed quality for cash and I have assumed a significant amount of financial risk in order to provide meeting places and tools for others. You will also notice my sites never have intrusive advertisements. We both drive Priuses, do we not? I really don't think we're in a position to chastise Toyota for developing hybrids only to make a buck.

    GreenHybrid has been in a downwards spiral for quite some time and I'm offering a second chance at a general hybrid car resource. I'd love for you all to join me—and hopefully sites like myHybridcar.com which offer something found nowhere else (currently that's the fuel economy database) will be seen as sibling communities to ones such as this.
     
  7. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I respectfully disagree. Almost all web sites are businesses designed to make money. How they're run determines the character of the site and the likelihood that they'll make money.

    I think the topic is very apropos. I'm not asking you to disclose numbers, but when it affects things such as whether informational posts/articles will be exclusive or not it affects the community in general.

    I'm out to help the community and never asked a dime in return, but you offered money to me if I'd let the article be exclusive to your site. That shows a clear preference for the commercial over the community side. Will the new site be similar?

    I hope so. But realize Danny's also developing a FE database...perhaps you guys have discussed something there too.
     
  8. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I don't know what article you're talking about, to be honest. I also think there are aspects of web content exclusivity that are more complicated than they appear at first glance. If you'd like to talk about these issues, feel free to email me. However, I'd like to again emphasize that I have never sacrificed quality for money so I don't see why I need to be on the defensive here.

    It's unfortunate the environment here is so hostile! The alternative, remember, is no alternative.
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    From your POV you didn't sacrifice quality. I disagree a bit...not a lot mind you, but you did, IMO, make decisions that put profit before community benefit.

    My intent isn't to be hostile Jason. I respect what you did at GH and I'm glad you're coming back with something new. That said, from my POV you made mistakes that damaged your site and were less than beneficial to the community than it could have been.

    My hope is that you'll remember that as you develop your new site. Not to bash you, not to bash the new site...or even GH for that matter. But I and others are watching how you choose to proceed.
     
  10. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2007
    10,664
    567
    0
    Location:
    Adelaide South Australia
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hey Jason,
    Best of luck with the new site mate.
     
  11. brick

    brick Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2006
    1,083
    78
    0
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Why do I need an alternative, exactly?
     
  12. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    An alternative to GreenHybrid—not PriusChat.

    I suppose you don't need one, but I'd think it smart to get off a sinking ship.
     
  13. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,191
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You don't have to tell me of course, but I was just wondering if you had a non-compete agreement? If not, then Internet Brands are idiots...you'll take down your own old site after selling for a profit.
     
  14. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    No, there's no non-compete. Of course, I had no intention of starting a competitor site three years ago but the slow decline of GreenHybrid has changed the climate.
     
  15. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    An Early GreenHybrid Member

    I put 3142 posts at GreenHybrid in two years, linked numerous articles, setup polls, etc. Around Jan 2006 their activity may have been comparable to PC, when they were sold and wanted to go "more mainstream". That turned out to be a membership less like PC and more like a general automotive forum....I understand the "Just Drive It", but there were a number of "Just Speed It" members increasing as ecodrivers and hypermilers were leaving. The Honda IMA hybrid system was routinely trashed - I thought they were going more mainstream?

    It should be noted that there were numerous hypermilers before GreenHybrid was sold when activity was at it's peak....a number of members, including staff GH members worked hard to run them off to increase GH activity - you can see the results. ;) Probably the worst bashing of Wayne Gerdes was at GH - who left as the most prominent member....attacks even included msantos, who lacks a mean bone in his body.

    In a world where 2 of 3 gallons comes outside the US and to mitigate the worst of climate change by 2050, CO2 must go down 80% while world energy consumption triples...it's very strange at GH that I received more than occasional gearheaded replies deriding me as somekind of ecofacist for suggesting driving under 70 and limiting the use of pickups/SUV for the times they are truly needed....the biggest flamethrower getting 19.8mpg in his HiHi (read: definitely a leadfoot).

    [ame="http://www.google.com/search?q=troy+heagy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:eek:fficial&client=firefox-a"]Troy Heagy[/ame] (Troy Heagy) has disrupted many green auto forums, yet after a solid week of disrupting GH, Jason knowlingly let his sock return to do another week of trolling months later. A kid in Ontario tore up his Insight with things like drive up a mountain at 85 as if it's a Tesla, then bashed Honda and all hybrids....Honda Canada knows him well and was treated like his Insight. :eek: All 100 of his posts were hybrid-bashing (like his nickname)....Jason was harsher on me than this troll. :confused: Even at PC, Troy Heagy and his socks would not be tolerated, and the 2nd troller that killed his Insight would not go far here. For reasons that escape me, Jason was more tolerant of trollers like these (and more) than me....interestingly, I have not been in trouble at Prius Chat.

    I think it's a reasonable assumption myHybridcar.com will be a lot like GreenHybrid.
     
  16. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Delta, you did a lot for GreenHybrid in the early days and I think it's fantastic you're still contributing to the online hybrid community. I don't recall the above events as well as you seem to, so I won't try to explain anything away.

    What I will say is that I founded GreenHybrid when I was 17 years old and when I had very little experience running forums. While neither of these are excuses, I have learned a large lot since then about managing websites and will do my very best to make myHybridcar.com a friendly, inviting community.

    Of course, there's little I can do to convince you other than show you how serious I am; if you believe there's a topic that's at all undercovered—for instance hypermiling techniques, please let me know and I will consider adding an appropriate subforum for interested members.

    Thanks!
     
  17. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    2,766
    1,510
    0
    Location:
    Lewisville, TX (Dallas area)
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Jason,

    I expect you to mature and learn, but it important to know the difference between the detractor and contributors - you ran off the contributors instead of hanging on to them while getting more new members. You're too sharp and incharge of GH at that time to have forgotten serial troller ElectricTroy and HondaSucks, neither could you have forgotten the time you were going to group ban me along with four members stalking me making anti-Hummer remarks commonplace here....it took four moderators to talk you out of bannning me for quoting The High and Mighty. Granted, I got carried away with some of my truck remarks, but even on perfect driving behavior, I get harassed by some truck drivers. I'd expect the same skimming on such situations to continue.

    Why did you let tbalano's dig on me stand in his sig? ( GreenHybrid - Hybrid Cars - View Profile: tbaleno ) That you let it stand seems to reflect your honest feelings.

    Opening a hypermiling subforum with Bob Wilson as a member? He's spent three years running hypermilers off of GH, then attacking them here without any evidence he will ever stop.

    That's probably enough to say.
     
  18. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2006
    7,028
    1,116
    0
    Location:
    South Jersey
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    V
    I only use the GreenHybrid database to track my FE compared to others. Although I find it a PITA to acces now I intend to continue until it is unavailable. I spend enough time here and not looking to go elsewhere.

    And now a word to every ex-owner who complains about what the buyer did to the property. It's not yours after the sale. If you want a say in or control over what happens then don't sell.
     
  19. JasonS

    JasonS Jason Siegel

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2003
    53
    0
    0
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Delta, as someone who's trying to be a significant contributor to the hybrid cause, I'd say you're being exceedingly hypocritical right now—don't you say?

    The usernames ET and HS spark vague memories, but I do not remember any specifics. I have not been an active moderator at GreenHybrid for over three years. Thanks for lighting a flame fest, though.

    Tom's signature is surprising to me and if I ever noticed it, it was quite a while ago. Signatures such as that will not be permitted at myHybridcar.com.

    I suppose whatever I say will not suffice, however, because you have an ax to grind. Perhaps you could drop the grudge.

    Agreed, but myHybridcar.com is and I intend to set things on the right track.
     
  20. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Hi Jason;

    I am an avid supporter of hybrid technology. I own more hybrid vehicles than most people in our online community do, and I also do so by owning exclusively hybrid vehicles. I own Toyota Hybrids and Honda hybrids and I do so with the knowledge and certainty that can only be derived from first hand experience.
    As you can see, it saddens me when I see Toyota vs Honda wars going on.

    It is on that note that I started to contribute at GH a good number of years ago with an interest of supporting the community that I was so fond of. Unfortunately, the governing ideology interpreted eco-driving and hypermiling as threats and did not accommodate them for whatever good they did. But since hypermiling and eco-driving were not perfect, it appeared it was OK to throw out the baby with the bath water. So, instead of accommodating and embracing this alternative, a void was inevitably formed which was also subsequently filled in 2006.

    Anyway, soon after the resentment at GH became very pronounced and it was time to start cracking down on people who not only had a reference in their signature to a competing and subjectively superior mileage database located in other sites but also any links to community support documents/articles located in other site. This became regarded as site sniping and spamming and the greed factor prevailed over the benefits to the community.
    This is in my view what put a noose around GH's neck and helped seal its fate. The site name was great, the traffic was awesome and the community was alive, but very soon the execution became myopic and exclusively rooted on half equation mediocrity and suspicion. This is my point of view and whether I managed to sum it up successfully to you or not, I vehemently share it with many at PC and elsewhere (including quite a few still at GH).

    So, despite wishing you well with the new web site I am still baffled by a few questions:
    1- How can you be sure that the new site is going to be of significant benefit to the community... while respectfully accommodating of the potential each hybrid owner is willing to commit to without creating alienation among its members?

    2- Even I am careful enough to acknowledge that the hybrid market accounts only for 5% of the total market so preventing community in-fighting and fragmentation should be a priority. Yes, we're trying hard to increase hybrid ownership though real world example, but for this 5% to increase at a faster rate we'll have to take it from the other 95% at a faster rate too. How are we doing it? Would we use "honey or vineagar"? I'm am sure that you'll agree that when we are governed by narrow mindedness, split-ups occur and voids are filled by people with more accommodating and flexible visions than ours. Is that something you which to avoid or continue with your new site?

    Also, I totally agree with Evan's points as well.

    Cheers;

    MSantos