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Did I kill my main battery ??? !!!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by priusguam, May 23, 2009.

  1. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    Ok, a few months ago I posted about my SOC swinging around after initial startups. Some responded that this was a sign of impending battery failure but all seemed well as it still got 60+ mpg hypermiling and the swings were only at initial startup. These swings were between SOC 80 and about 30 SOC (very occasionally it would swing briefly down to single digits on the scan gauge) but it would always normalize in the first 5 minutes and then was pretty steady. Now I have a totally different situation:
    Got back from a month of vacation and started the car up. When the ICE started it made a horrific noise sounding like it had no oil in the top grinding and jerking. Just as I was reaching to kill it, it started to pump oil and smooth out. Ouch! Ok, now it was running smoothly so I took it for a drive. All was well for about 2-3 minutes until the red triangle came on with "VSC", "Check engine" and an exclamation point. The main display said "problem and had a little red Prius with and exclamation through it. Hmmm. I reset the power button a few times to no avail. I had loaned out my scan gauge so I couldn't investigate further. Instead I went ahead and drove the car on 3-4 30 minute trips in the next few days and noticed it would have a FULL GREEN battery almost the whole time. Not good. Any braking would max it out right away. Today I got my scan gauge back and hooked it up.... 2 codes, P0A80 and P3017 (It also showed P0000 briefly). With the car running and the ICE idling, I cleared the codes the engine smoothed out immediately, all the warning lights cleared and the ICE shut down. Ah, normal again......or so I thought. I happily drove a few miles and all appeared normal. No warnings, ICE turns off, I can hyper mile again, etc. Coming home I noticed the Green Battery was still prevalent. SOC on the Scan Guage showing 100!!! Never seen that before. Basically it fluctuates wildly now between 38 and 100 and of course the ICE starts and stops very frequently when the charge drops to ~38. When it gets above 80 the ICE doesn't start as it normally would to dissipate the charge. At first I thought the scan gauge would clear the stray "trons" and save me a trip to the dealer. Now I think the dealer may have bad news about the main battery instead. I love my Prius but this is a bummer!!! Any ideas on if I damaged the battery driving in the weird state before I cleared the codes. Thanks (BTW when I damaged the 12v battery a few months ago the dealer replaced it and said he had checked the main battery and that it was ok)
     
  2. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    It's -possible- all that was caused by a low 12V battery. I'd leave the car on for a few hours to ensure the 12V battery is fully charged or use it for a few hours (it takes that long to fully charge the 12V battery).

    The dealer can do a much more involved check of the traction battery, including looking for failed modules. It -will- cost you around $100 unless you have a very good relationship with him.

    I'm not aware of any way you could have damaged the battery. The car's systems are very protective of it.
     
  3. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

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    I would guess that the main traction battery should be okay. NiMH batteries live longer if kept in the narrow range that the Prius keeps its battery. But a few wide swings should not make a big difference.

    However, those wide swings of 38% to 100% (on the scan gauge - not reading the icon on the screen) suggest that there is a serious problem somewhere, and you should take the car to a dealer to be checked out by the techs there, immediately. You should have done that immediately when you had the grinding engine noises and the big red triangle. Re-booting it a few times to see if it clears is fine. But using the scan gauge to clear the codes and then driving it seems awfully reckless.

    Just my opinion. I'm not a tech.
     
  4. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

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    Both of the above responses make sense to me. First, eliminate the 12 v system as a source of gremlins, than get the battery thoroughly tested.

    I would add my personsal doubts that anything you've done with the scangauge, or by driving style, should have made the problem worse. So, go find out whether the modules are unhappy inside, or corroded outside, or if signal voltages are not getting to where they're supposed to go.
     
  5. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    You guys are right. I really haven't used the car that much since I discovered the issue so it seems weird that I could damage it so rapidly. I have only had the car for 8 months and it has had some subtle SOC issues as previously described. I hope that the previous owner didn't do anything stressful like multiple drives after running out of gas or something similar. Clearing the codes with the scan gauge helped as it did immediately bring back normal operation - the idle smoothed out and the ICE started to shut off normally, but the battery is still seeming weird.
    Anyway, its going straight to the dealer on Tuesday for a thorough checkup and wont be driven until then. I thought about driving it for a few hours like Dan mentioned to charge everything thoroughly, but instead I will bring it in for the checkup first in case a relay, a short or something can be corrected - to make sure i don't cause any unnecessary damage. Ill keep you posted in a few days. I always hoped my NIMH battery would last long enough to replace with a LiIon, maybe convert to a plug in, but researching these shows they're like $10k. Too much for now. Hopefully I wont need to get another Nimh.
     
  6. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    BTW, I looked up those codes I mentioned in the original post. The say "Replace Hybrid HV Battery" or something close to that. Not a good sign, although they haven't reappeared in the 2-3 miles I drove since resetting the codes. Lets see....
     
  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    What's the odometer reading on your car? Is your car still covered under the 100K mile hybrid system warranty?

    I agree that the two DTC point to a failed traction battery, specifically within battery block #7. If your car is not under hybrid system warranty, an alternative is for you to buy a salvage battery via eBay (although shipping costs to your area might be quite high.)
     
  8. Norm611

    Norm611 Junior Member

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    I didn't know there was a touring version available in 2004 (for the US).

    Package #5 seems to be a mid-range package, Intermittent wiper, side curtain air bag, Auto-dimming/home link rear view mirror, 6-disk, 9 speaker sound system. No mention of "touring".

    Was this a built-for-US car?

    Norm
     
  9. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    Not really sure what package I have, touring or what. Basically it has everything except the navigation package and bluetooth phone. I have 70k on the car so if I have to replace main batt I think I can some proration. tomorrow I will update when I go to the dealer.
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, I think you have the equivalent of the US 2004 pkg 9 excluding nav. Vehicles sold in Hawaii also do not have nav. Touring definitely was not available in 2004.

    Since you have only 70K miles your traction battery should be covered under the 8 year / 100K mile warranty, so no worries. There's no point in going to the dealer now, until those failure codes are logged again (since you had cleared them.)
     
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  11. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    Dealer was able to pull up the codes. Changing main battery! So far they are doing the right thing and covering it under warranty. Im very impressed by their service and straightforward decision. They need 3 weeks to get and change the part. I will post again with final results, but keep you fingers crossed that all is covered by warranty.
     
  12. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Did you ever drive it after running out of gas? (Driving it immediately without a warmup did not kill the battery.)
     
  13. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    You got that in writing?
     
  14. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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  15. windstrings

    windstrings Certified Prius Breeder

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  16. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    Here's what happened I just got the car back after 2-1/2 months for battery to arrive by ship and get installed. Dealer covered the cost under warranty thank goodness! By covering this under warranty they built a LOT of goodwill and I will probably buy my next Prius from them. They did a great job with no hassles. They determined that the old battery had corrosion on some terminals and at least one bad cell. Living in Guam definitely contributes to corrosion and I will inspect this from now on regularly.

    The car runs much better now. It never gets out of the blue range. Before it frequently showed red and green. SOC now is almost always between 52-58, even hypermiling and on big downhills. On initial startup the battery hardly decreases at all as I drive in the first minute. Before, it would go down to about 40 SOC driving in the first minute. Also, long down-hills used to overcharge it to 70-80 SOC pretty fast. Now it has much more battery capacity all around. Mileage is way up. It seems to be getting about 4-5 MPG better and I'm at 56 MPG with only mild hypermiling. I'm eager to try for a max hypermile to beat my old 65 MPG record. I bet I can now get a 70 MPG tank with just my 15 mile commute and no short trips - no A/C. I'm Happy to have my Prius back and better after 3 months. Hoping for no more major problems!!!
     
  17. jayman

    jayman Senior Member

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    The battery pack shouldn't be run hot either. Use the A/C
     
  18. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    Interesting. Its about 92 degrees here. Of course the car sits in the sun and gets much hotter when not in use, but when Im driving around with the windows open its around 90. Do you think 90 degrees can contribute to battery failure? I've only heard the battery fan run a few times and that was just before it failed. Maybe I should monitor battery compartment temp with the Scanguage. Thanks for the input.
     
  19. priusguam

    priusguam Junior Member

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    Patrick, you were right about me having a package #9 without nav, and also about the dealer covering the battery replacement. Thanks
     
  20. Celtic Blue

    Celtic Blue New Member

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    If you don't feel you need the AC, don't worry about it. The AC is unlikely to help the battery much on a short commute. Your commute is midrange so it might help if the battery is particularly warm (sunny late afternoon for example.) The hybrid battery system will try to protect itself if it is getting too warm. If you hear the battery fan running hard (back passenger seat area) then it is getting toward the higher end of the scale.

    I don't run the AC until it's above about 92...or when I am stuck in slow moving traffic, have the sun shining in on my side, have passengers, etc. I'm not sweltering, if I get hot I turn it on.
     
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