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Brakes pulling in turns

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Sky, May 4, 2005.

  1. Sky

    Sky New Member

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    Hi! I'm a proud new Prius owner who loves the 50mpg I'm averaging so far, the sound system, and temperature controls, quiet ride, and much more. And I think my car looks cool. The one questionable thing that I'm noticing is a tendency for it to pull left when I'm in a mild right turn and gently put on the brakes. Not always, but often. And once, when I was testing this, it almost felt like someone was on the other end of the steering column and nudging back every time I nudged it.
    I would love to hear any feedback on this. I have driven many, many new cars and never noticed anything like this before.
    I sometimes also feel this pull in left turns, but not nearly so often.
    When I have tested the brakes on straight stretches, the car always tracks straight--no pull.
     
  2. craigcush

    craigcush Member

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    Wish I knew the answer as I have the same experience. It feels like the brakes are grabbing the steering, disconcerting. No answer from the dealer here, did you try them on it? Or under the "adjustment period" have the alignment/linkage/brakes checked?
    I'd be curious of your and others experience.
     
  3. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

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    What Package do you have? According to Prius New Car Features the Traction and VST will aggressively control both front and rear wheel skid with the suggestion that the control systems actually control steering as well not just the break systems. Remember the car can steer itself at low speeds. The Japanese Prius can parallel park itself. If the power steering can do that what can it do with the car moving. Is the VST light coming on? The few times I have experienced this in action it was very strange indeed. The car feels a bit like it has taken control. Not at all what I have experienced in previous cars I have owned.
     
  4. Sky

    Sky New Member

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    I have a "Package 6 (BC)", and I don't know what the VST light looks like or exactly where it would be located. I haven't noticed any special lights come on, but I will watch for that. Thank you.
     
  5. craigcush

    craigcush Member

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    Good thought but no vst, I have experienced the car taking over with the light and beep making a high speed u turn on wet pavement. Didn't feel the steering then just the power backing off.
    The problem is only at slower speeds with easy slight degree turns, touch the brakes and you get the feeling that someone else has a duplicate steering wheel. I can only compare this to my first landings in a plane when the instructor made a correction. And a older car that had a shot front end!
    My Prius is a '05 #6 800 miles
     
  6. DanMan32

    DanMan32 Senior Member

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    That's VSC (Vehicle Stability Control). When it activates, you see the car with the squiggly line underneath it in yellow, accompanied by a chime.
    VSC is to prevent you from fishtailing, so you won't be able to do doughnuts on icy parking lots.

    If you see the icon without a chime, that's either traction control or ABS activating.

    At least have the alignment checked.
     
  7. mdacmeis

    mdacmeis Member

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    If you are NOT getting indication that VSC is activated (light and sound) you are most likely feeling the affects of EBD, electronic brake force distribution, which optimizes rear brake force distribution while in a turn. When turning, the rear wheels will have different traction limits depending on your speed and turning arc. The inside rear wheel, when turning, may lift and therefore has brake force reduced to it. The uneven application of rear brake force MAY be noticeable at times and feel somewhat as if the vehicle is being pushed in a slightly different direction. As the outside rear wheel has more brake force applied to it, the vehicle may feel as if it wants to go straighter through the turn than you are requesting because the higher brake force at this wheel creates a force that acts as a pivot. While this can be a bit strange feeling, you have much less likelihood of having the inside rear wheel skid, which would result in ABS activation or VSC activation if the rear end broke loose.
     
  8. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    If it were due to the EBD, wouldn't the vehicle pull both to the left and to the right, depending on conditions?

    My car also demonstrates these symptoms every now and then. I have yet to figure out a consistent pattern of when such a force is present. When I do detect such a pull, it is always to the left and never while the ABS, traction control or VSC systems are activated. It feels almost as if it is due to the air pressure in the left front tire being lower than in front right tire, but it is the same (my gauge is accurate to within half a PSI).
     
  9. craigcush

    craigcush Member

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    I asked a friend to drive with me and we both agreed that braking even in a straight line feels like something grabs the wheel. Nothing changes, just unnerving. I didn't even notice the straight line before, just curves.
    Looking for consensus, but it only seems a few posts here so I agree with Dan and will push the dealer a bit harder.
     
  10. mdacmeis

    mdacmeis Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius\";p=\"87270)</div>
    You are correct, however, the left versus right affects are countered by you sitting in the driver's seat. Thus, right turns have a larger affect in lifting the left rear, while left turns are somewhat countered by your mass in the drivers seat affecting right rear lift. Adding another passenger will further change the center of gravity of the vehicle and thus affect the in-turn feeling you experience.

    As reported by others, there seems to be some variation in the tracking of the Prius, so some of the "twitchiness" reported by others might translate to increased in-turn sensitivity. I still suspect you are feeling the affects of weight transfer and EBD, which adds to the feeling.
     
  11. GAGendel

    GAGendel Junior Member

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    I have another braking question...

    When coming to a slow stop I notice that something disengages just before it stops. I then have to brake harder to stop where I wanted to.

    Am I alone on this?
     
  12. randalla

    randalla Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(GAGendel\";p=\"87499)</div>
    The regenerative braking is actually doing the work until you slow to around 8mph and then the friction brakes take over from there to complete stop.
     
  13. Sky

    Sky New Member

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    I just drove my wifes Civic yesterday, and it really drove home to me that the steering in my Prius, far from being "sensitive", is actually very stiff, unresponsive, with lots of "strange" feedback feelings coming through the steering wheel. I had a job where I drove lots of brand new cars, and I've never driven one like this as far as the steering. It seems like I'm always having to "push and resist" steering feel feedback. Definitely no fun on curvy mountain roads.
    I drove some of those curvy roads the first week I had my car, and thought I was being way over-protective of my new car, the way I was driving. Now I realize that I was feeling incredibly insecure about the feel of the steering.
    My car is almost due for it's 1000 mile checkup, and I will have them check the alignment and toe. I certainly hope they can do something about this, as it does not make for a relaxing ride.
    Thank you all for your input.
     
  14. GAGendel

    GAGendel Junior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sky\";p=\"88169)</div>
    I think you're seeing the true Prius. It has been written up several times noting it's "lack of feel" and "understeering". Darn thing scared me silly the first few days of driving. However, like all new car quirks, I soon adjusted and found it reasonable. I understand that the 2006 (at least in Europe) will have a completely redesigned steering and suspension systems. Not soon enough for us existing owners, but it means that Toyota is listening.
     
  15. cc_prius

    cc_prius New Member

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    I got my Prius on Sat, and in my commute today had my first hard stop. At first, the brakes felt too soft, and didn't slow the car quick enough for my tastes. Right at the end of the stop, something kicked in and stopped the car on a dime. I guess it was the brakes engaging at 8mph. Good for me, as long as the guy behind me can stop as quick. That will take some getting used to.
     
  16. Sky

    Sky New Member

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    Well, my Prius has been in the shop today for it's 1000 mile servicing, and I told them about the steering. They said they checked the steering and that, during the time they drove it, the steering was normal. So now my car is in the shop for at least an extra day so they can drive it some more. I understand about "intermittent" problems, but it doesn't take too many right turns putting the brakes on gently to feel the wheel give a tug left.
    This last weekend I was up in the mountains visiting my friend again, and it's really a bit scary on the curvy, not quite wide enough for 2 cars at a time two way country roads, to have the steering periodically bump my hand left, as I brake going around a blind right turn.
    This is certainly not what I expected when I plunked down my $28,932.00 for a brand new Toyota. I've driven $500.00 to $4,000.00 vehicles all my life, including a number of woderful toyotas, and I've got to admit, right now I'm feeling a good bit of disappointment.
     
  17. KTPhil

    KTPhil Active Member

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    Alignment check is, surprisingly, not a part of the pre-delivery checklist. Have it checked, both to be in spec, as close side-to-side as they can adjust it, and make sure the front toe-in is in fact, toed-in, not zero or a little out (which the spec allows). It can affect braking stability as well as handling.
     
  18. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    Any possibility you can borrow and drive another Prius to verify things?
     
  19. Sky

    Sky New Member

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    Got my car back from the Maita Toyota of Sacramento service department, who by the way were fantastic, but no luck getting the "intermittent" tug on the steering to show itself. They had a couple of different people test drive it, allowed me to ride with still another test driver, who had me drive it to see if I could duplicate the problem. No luck.
    The steering was on totally good behavior till the next day. The people at Maita said "bring it in any time during business hours that it's acting up" and they will have somebody ride with me in hopes of getting an idea of what's happening.
     
  20. raybon

    raybon New Member

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    I'm curious if weight distribution may effect the problem. Do you usually see the problem when you are the only one in the car? Do you ever notice it when there is someone riding in the front passenger seat? What if people are in the back seats?

    It may help troubleshooting... Just throwing out some ideas.

    Glenn