Give americans what they want, never mind what makes sense

I am SO glad Ignore is on. Good thing you're a patient man, I'm not

Proper terminology - such as when I'm in a large chemical plant, and point to a valve assembly

Me: That is a PEEK (Poly Ether Ether Ketone) valve assembly

Deranged Person: No! Banana!

Me: No, PEEK

DP: Banana banana banana!

Me: <sigh>

Hmmm, the conversation I can no longer view, has switched from EPA mandated emissions controls, to fuel economy standards. Of course, the EU has no mandated fuel economy standards, they regulate based on taxation of fuel, and displacement of motor

I did receive an email from another forum member about Dreamer posts. Apparently, he claimed that the black diesel exhaust gushing out is "harmless" as it immediately settles to the ground. OMFG.

Why bother? I posted links to appropriate EPA and ARB data, apparently that didn't matter. The same forum member also emailed me another Dreamer snippet about "fancy data." Data is data, period

The same forum member who emailed me Dreamer quotes, the cute one was "internet babies."

Last time I checked, not only was I middle aged, but also an engineer (Chemical engineer, to be precise). In my career, sticking to the facts, facts that are verifiable, is pretty much the big rule.

If I were to go off on a deranged tangent spouting stuff with zero backing evidence (Eg: Common over at FHOPol) I most likely would have been fired a long time ago, forced to live in a cardboard box.

Has Dreamer posted even ONE SINGLE LINK to a recognized, verifiable source of data? Even one??

Want to know what's truly sad?

This sort of off-the-rails thread only serves to give more ammunition to the giant lifted black smoke gushing pick-em-up truck crowd. Not only do they think Prius owners are gay and snobs, now they will think VW TDI owners are nuts too

 

Unsupported ........oh why bother ....... How about the fact that I lived through this , I was of age reading the newspapers , watching TV , voting and living my life . I could give a crap what you can dig up off of the internet some 35 years later as I was there ......

I've lived through 3 major oil shocks as an adult and it makes me sick were we are today . We have a real world CAFE below where it was in 75 when we first started down this road . And from the day it was signed import auto makers flooded the US market with 30-50 mpgUS cars gasoline & diesel powered to meet the coming CAFE restrictions .

I saw first hand when the loophole really started to be used , in 1983 that is . We were in an recession not too unlike today when auto makers started to push heavier less efficient vehicles starting us down the road we find ourselves today . CAFE peaked in 1983 before the push to end it gained steam . You could go to any car lot in the US a purchase a 40+ mpg gas or diesel powered car & light truck . The real light truck not the made up definition used today .

Loophole vehicles or WETF you want to call them are the main transportation based pollution causer today . That one is a fact whether you or anyone else gets or not . Back yard lawn mowers & two stroke leaf blowers along with other sources of VOCs are the other main contribution to smog we make as citizens in most major US cities .

 

Since the few here that love to respond in a hostile way don't seem to want to get the facts I've laid out how about this question . Please go ahead ignore the stuff you don't believe but answer me this ??????

What are the positives of the current over regulation of non-existent ( make up less than 0.2 % US fleet ) light duty diesels ?????? Vehicles that I have pointed out haven't been sold here in any numbers in close to 24 years , that weren't even sold here for 8 of the last 24 years ???

A positive of going to EU standard is , We could overnight with no negative impact to air quality if we allowed EU spec light duty diesels in cut our oil imports to nil . It would also give the big 3 the ability to sell diesel powered models built here today for sale in Europe only that can achieve high 40s mpgUS . Most are versions of cars built & sold here only difference is they come with a diesel drivetran but not allowed to be sold here due to our current emissions over regulations . Imagine the number of people that could use the current $4,500 tax credit to buy these if they had the option . Note , to get that $4,500 tax credit only the worst of the worst polluters & oil wasters qualify for replacement so a positive impact on air quality would observed by their replacement .

I have some other questions ,

How many hybrids are sold , not just made and still sitting on the lot a year ?? In the US , around the world ?? What % of the US fleet are they ??

What if any impact if any do they have on air quality positive or negative being such a small % of total US fleet ???

And with the added costs of building hybrids that to date has made them a money looser for car builders what is gained other than publicity from the selling of them ?? Granted I'll give the fact that I'm glad they at exist today as an option to more wasteful vehicles . And even though I have no desire to ever own one I still think at some point the technology and costs will come around to profitable point . And I look forward to that day .

And if you were allowed to purchase a small diesel powered option that could achieve in the real world 50-75 & higher mpgUS for say 1/2-2/3rds of the cost of the Prius how many still would go for the hybrid option ?? If you don't know Toyota along with every other auto maker has more than a few diesel powered models that have little trouble achieving these numbers in production today . Diesel powered models that sell in the many hundreds of thousands around
the world .

IF these fuel diesel efficient options that are now sold around the world were to be offered here would the cars like the Prius even exist any longer . Especially when you consider they have been for the most part a money looser as a production model if these small diesels were an option in the US ??

And for those that wish to attack , I'm not anti-Toyota or anti-hybrid in any way . I'm glad those here have chosen to care about their energy use .

Every question I've asked is a relevant and thoughtful question . So if truly all you want to do is hurl insults why not actually ignore me . Not just post the words in a childish manor over & over " I'm ignoring you " . What are some of you like 3 years old or something ????????

 

What an excellent idea.!

 

First, the main reason diesel cars aren't sold here is because people do not want them. The diesel cars sold in the 80's were crap, and put a bad taste in the mouths of American car buyers, good example is the GM gas engine that was converted to diesel that had major fail written all over it, add to that the stink of diesel fuel, and the additives needed to keep it from gelling in the winter. That is the real reason more aren't sold here.

Now I love diesels, I have an F350 Superduty dually crewcab, 8000 pounds of raw smoking badass power that rarely gets driven these days since I dont have a need to drive something that big. I only use it when I need it, it's paid for, and costs me $600 a year in insurance to keep it. I would snap up a diesel powered hybrid in a moment.

Here is a little information that doesn't come easily to the majority of people who want to know why aren't there more cars getting 40 MPG or more after all these years.

EPA!!!

To meet todays emission standards, the exhaust leaving a tailpipe must meet certain goals. In order to obtain those goals, fuel metering must be extremely precise, hence a 17:1 stoichiometry fuel ratio. Anything more or less and you will not meet emission standards. That is the ratio at which gasoline burns completely in an internal combustion engine, given the compression ratio, spark, chamber shape etc are all precise. Once you build a motor and program it to acheive that ratio, you will get only so many MPG out of it, the other factors are Coefficient of Drag, road friction, etc. Like the Prius, it was designed to flow smoothly through the air and road, and if ran only on gas, would probably do no better than 38-40 MPG tops.

What that all boils down to, is the car makers have hit their limits in making a car that runs on Gasoline that can do better than 40 MPG while meeting emission goals. They can make the car smaller and lighter, and maybe squeeze a little more out of it, but that's it, gas cars have reached their limits.

The gas cars in the 80's didn't have such strict emissions standards and could run carburetors, and could be leaned out to achieve some really good economy standards, but the emissions were off the charts. If you have ever noticed, cars no longer have carbs, they are all fuel injected, you cant control a carb like you can an injector, they tried, and were very unsuccessful, just ask anyone who worked on a Ford VV carb, or a Misubishi Computer Controlled carb.

The workaround for Gasoline powered cars it the Hybrid technology. The addition of an electric motor increases fuel economy, but again there is a limit as to how high they can go, and currently only the Prius is seeing 60 MPG, and that takes skilled driving and devout concentration to get there on a daily basis. So how do you make a car that can fit a family of 4 comfortably and still get 40+ MPG?

Diesel power. Since the gubment is forcing car companies to meet or exceed certain MPG goals, you will soon see more diesel powered cars and SUV's out there. The real problem will then be to get people to actually buy them. They will need to be re-educated on diesels, and will need to become more familiar with them, and with any luck VW may be the leader to do so with their TDI.

 

Did you really need to start this thread up again?

 

To bring the topic back on track:
Businesses target a particular market.
They succeed if they can deliver product that their customers WANT.
Now, if they can convince people that they WANT what is good for them/environment/national security/etc then the two will become the same thing among the businesses customers.
No business will stay in business if they don't deliver what a sustainable fraction of the market wants. Thus every retail business from book stores to auto companies will deliver what people want.
I don't see why one would expect that to be any different.