Traction Battery Dies in 2009 Prius Pkg 4

Re: Traction Battery Dies in 2009 Prius Level IV

I agree it shouldn't be a "known problem." Mine will exhaust the battery in the mountains running up to Blackhawk from Denver, but it will maintain speed on the ICE (it revs it's little heart out, but does a decent job). If you're climbing worse grades than here on the Front Range and at higher altitude I guess it could eventually be more than the ICE can handle. I'm definitely surprised at this.

 

Re: Traction Battery Dies in 2009 Prius Level IV

Was there any warning light or error message? How do you know it is dead?

 

Re: Traction Battery Dies in 2009 Prius Level IV

Is the issue one of battery failure or of exhausting the battery? You can't be going uphill all the time, so the ICE should be recharging the battery at some point, unless there is a problem with the system.

Are you driving in a high elevation area where the demand is so great that the HSD can't keep up? Do you think that is the problem, or do you believe the battery itself is bad?

Are you driving alone or with passengers? Are you carrying anything else in the car? Are you using regular gasoline? Do you drive just in short intervals or for long stretches at a time?

 

Re: Traction Battery Dies in 2009 Prius Level IV

how fast does it lose all the charge?

 

I'd think that you're driving the Prius in a very extreme environment. It's entirely feasible that with long uphill treks, the traction battery will discharge to it's lower threshold. There's a threshold of power output where a portion of that power comes from the battery. Keep the vehicle operating over that threshold, and you end up discharging the battery. At that point, only the ICE can power the vehicle.

Depending on what you're actually trying to do (i.e. long uphill climbs), you're probably putting demand that is over the threshold mentioned above, and the vehicle is doing what would normally happen.

 

How many other Prius have you driven in THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES to say that they do not operate the same?

Have you left it on the Energy display on the MFD while driving in the mountains? Is energy mostly flowing FROM the battery?


Remember, the battery only has SO much energy when it's fully charged up. You can actually use that energy pretty quickly if there's no opportunity to recover it.

Your vehicle might be performing COMPLETELY normally given the circumstances. Again, think about the power threshold - once you start driving over that threshold, you're drawing power from the battery. If you keep it above that threshold like when driving uphill for extended periods you are GOING TO discharge the battery. There's no way around it.

Also consider that the battery will heat up under heavy demand. When it heats up, the hybrid system limits the amount of power it can provide AND the amount of power it can absorb through regeneration. Heat KILLS batteries, so the system will throttle the battery to keep it from getting too hot. You may be encountering situations where this affects performance as well.

 

Gary,

This doesn't sound "normal" at all. I have driven up large hills in Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia and West Virginia that are comparable and have always been fine with cruise set at 65-70 MPH. This includes the "7 mile hill" up I-77 crossing over from NC to VA.

The battery will get low on these runs but I don't remember ever seeing it go purple on me. I only see that (purple) when I am sitting in the car for extended periods for some reason either on a phone call or playing with Bluetooth or Dice.

If possible, is there a Toyota Dealership nearby this hill that you could take a Service Manager for a test ride? I always found service departments to be most responsive when a manager actually see/hears the problem.

Another test could be sit with the car running long enough to get down to the purple and then drive up a smaller hill or at speed on the highway. If you "tax" the ICE in this situation and it is uncapable or recharging the traction battery do the same symptoms represent? If so you may be able to duplicate them for your Service Manager.

I hope this helps.

Chris

 

Maybe the TB cooling fan is not working. This could cause the TB to heat up too fast, and the car would reduce the battery charging to compensate.

 

I would concur something like that could be happening, but wouldn't it throw a code?

 

The heart of your question is really "Is this Normal?". What is confusing the issue is that it IS normal to have quicker discharge when driving on an incline. However, I don't think the overall behavior is normal. Not being able to drive over 45mph and having your engine cycle fast and slow RPM over and over is NOT normal.

In trying to determine if this in normal behavior and/or leverage warranty work, perhaps you could borrow or rent another Prius? I'd ask Toyota to pay for it. Drive it as you have driven yours and see if the results are the same. If another Prius demonstrates the exact same symptoms then maybe where you live and the driving you do IS going to be prohibitive of owning a Prius. But I doubt it. If another Prius doesn't react the same way, you'd have a clear case to tell Toyota and The Dealership, hey this isn't "normal", Fix it.

I'm thinking that's the easiest, quickest way to determine if your Prius is simply operating normally or if you have a problem.

 

How about make a video? It is easiest to see how you drive it in what kind of terrain, etc...

 

The title of the thread is very misleading since it doesn't sound like the battery itself is the problem, and the explanation of what is happening is garbled too. Start over so that folks can follow along:

1. What are the conditions of the drive? What road? What sort of grade, how long? Are you firewalling it to start out? What altitude at beginning and end?

2. What is happening, in sequence?

3. Have you driven another GenII Prius on this same stretch of road and seen the same thing happen?

4. Are you doing this with AC maxed?

I can't tell whether what you describe is normal or not for mountain conditions, but others should be able to.

As to what might be effecting the vehicle other than the driving conditions:
1. Check tire pressure as low pressure increases drag.
2. Make sure the battery vent beside the passenger seat is not obstructed.
3. Check your oil level, Toyota usually delivers them overfilled by 1/4". There is a possibility that this might cause trouble, even some oil ingestion into the air intake.
4. Has the vehicle thrown any codes?
5. I wonder if the inverter pump is not working properly?
6. What fuel are you using?

IF other Prius have the same problem on that stretch then there is not much you can do, so a direct comparison is needed. The traction battery cannot pull you all the way up a mountain, it just isn't very big and will soon be down to minimum SOC. The gasoline engine is small, which makes it more efficient, but not particularly well suited for long steep grades. If the engine alone can't maintain the speed you desire over a long steep grade, then the battery will soon be depleted. At altitude the power output is even less (nothing unusual about that.)

The only suggestion I have for improving the horsepower of the ICE is to try a drop-in K&N air filter. This should slightly increase horsepower at WOT, but don't expect miracles...especially with a drop in filter.

 

Eastern mountains are not the same as Colorado. You start at
a much higher base altitude in the Rockies, and there are known
effects of high altitude on battery performance as noted here.
Some owners claim to never have issues of this sort, others do,
and it doesn't seem to be tied to any particular year of car.
Ambient pressure effects on sealed NiMH cells are documented,
and as the car has no MAP or BARO sensors it cannot determine
a particular set of conditions to compensate for. And of course
when you're climbing hard it tends to use up the battery anyways.
.
I saw the same thing, and once I was back down under about 2000 feet
everything was completely back to normal. I've even seen hints of
the effect in really stormy, low-pressure weather back home [which
we've had plenty of in the northeast, thankyouverymuchyoucanquitnow].
.
The 2010 Prius appears to incorporate a barometric sensor, possibly
as an input to deal with precisely this issue.
.
_H*

 

... this sounds normal for that region. i lived in Colorado for about a year with my 04. Utah climbs drain it.. Wyoming climbs drain it.. and parts of Colorado drain it.

the "trick" is to try not using the battery.. so.. take it kinda slow and try to keep engine RPMs up while having motor RPMs down.. so try to get green arrow to battery as much as possible. in some areas this will be impossible. keeping from flooring it tends to help too... but sometimes you may feel as if you Have to floor it. try lifting off a little if you are flooring it.. and you'll feel the system start pulsing oddly. you should be getting battery regen when this happens...

but yeah.. i assume that's why they added a gear ratio to the electric motor for the 2010 prius.... plus a bigger engine

 

Re: Traction Battery Dies in 2009 Prius Level IV

6 degrees is a 10.5%, with is 50% steeper than the steepest section of I-70. I'm too new to hybrids to have driven a one in the mountains yet, but wouldn't be surprised that it if couldn't go faster than that.

Could you mean 6%, not 6 degrees?

6 miles of this slope is either 3,300 feet or 1,900 feet of elevation gain, which far exceeds the battery capacity. If the battery provides any significant portion of the traction power, it will be drained before reaching the top. Most of the climb must be done on the ICE alone.