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Removing Side Mirrors for Better Aerodynamics

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by Gen 3 for me, Jul 13, 2009.

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  1. Gen 3 for me

    Gen 3 for me Member

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    Has anybody besides me thought about removing the side mirrors for better fuel economy. I read the legal code in my state, IL, and to me (not a lawyer) the law is clear that side mirrors are not required, but a rear view mirror is. Side mirrors are required if you tint the side / rear windows, or if you have so much in the car as to block the view from the rear view mirror. I have not checked the law for all the states I would possibly drive to yet.

    I do not have my Prius yet so I can't try this out myself at this time. I also would want to collect baseline mpg data on a standard route before doing this experiment.

    Would have to remove door panels and unbolt mirrors and disconnect wiring harness and plug or fill holes in door panel. It seems that the shape of the interior trim would allow a small bracket holding a mirror to be attached in the ideal spot to replace the view of the factory side view mirror. It is also possible to place another mirror by the small triangular shaped window to get a view of the "blind spot". I saw an interior side view mirror used on a GM fuel economy show car in 1983 and got this idea there.

    Opinions and other thoughts / considerations? Be honest. I can take it. ;)
     
    #1 Gen 3 for me, Jul 13, 2009
  2. cairo94507

    cairo94507 Active Member

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    Let us know how that works out for you as you are driving down the road and changing lanes, making turns, etc. :eek:
     
    #2 cairo94507, Jul 13, 2009
  3. Paradox

    Paradox Prius Enthusiast / Moderator
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    After removing them you'd still have visual presence theat they were there unless you spend further money to make the removal seem 'clean'.

    I personally cannot see doing something like this for an increase in MPG's considering we're getting 50 already... It just wouldn't look 'clean' and to me, whether the state you are in allows it or not, the safety/convenience issues make it just not worth it. Again, this is all my opinion. I remember reading others on here who mentioned folding their in... I wouldn't do that either.
     
    #3 Paradox, Jul 13, 2009
  4. jay_man2

    jay_man2 jay_man_also

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    I wonder if a JDM Prius has a mirror up on the fender, and what impact that has on fuel economy.
     
    #4 jay_man2, Jul 13, 2009
  5. stream

    stream Senior Member

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    As John McEnroe would say...you can not be serious. ;)
     
    #5 stream, Jul 13, 2009
  6. DeanFL

    DeanFL 2010 owner - 1st Prius

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    Agree, totally. I can see it if you're planning a new land speed record. But can't imagine the mpg gain would be worth more than +1-2 mpg going 70.
    But maybe fender skirts over all 4 wheel wheels (ala the original Insight)... :car:
     
    #6 DeanFL, Jul 13, 2009
  7. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    I don't care what the law is, the idea stinks.

    Removing the mirrors unnecessarily and unjustifiably puts other people's lives at greater risk.
     
    #7 Boo, Jul 13, 2009
  8. yardman 49

    yardman 49 Active Member

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    +1 to Boo's reply.

    The trade off of safety versus performance is not worth it.

    I started driving when almost no cars came with standard right-hand mirrors. I often wished that my first car had one.

    And the first right hand mirrors were not "wide angle" like todays rh mirrors are. The wide angle rh's today are much better than the original flat-glass ones.

    I recently read a story where some car manufacturer is integrating a wide angle lens into part of the left hand (driver's) mirror. This will be an even further improvement.

    So please don't remove your side mirrors.
     
    #8 yardman 49, Jul 13, 2009
  9. Boo

    Boo Boola Boola Member

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    #9 Boo, Jul 13, 2009
  10. ZTrekus

    ZTrekus New Member

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    IMHO I reckon that removing the side mirrors would make one helluva difference. I reckon it would reduce the already remarkable coefficient of drag that much more.

    It would surely have to be quieter on the freeway too. I reckon it would improve significantly mpgs as well since you are getting rid of those awful wind wings on an otherwise speeding bullet/missile.

    Don't get me wrong though. I would rather drive a truck than not have them!
     
    #10 ZTrekus, Jul 13, 2009
  11. Tech_Guy

    Tech_Guy Class Clown

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    Go ahead and remove the rear view mirrors. You don't really want to see what is in the past. You just need to look cool getting there..........

    Keith
     
    #11 Tech_Guy, Jul 13, 2009
  12. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Super Moderator
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    Unless you plan to replace them w/ fish-eye cameras w/ LCD screens in the operetta windows. I'd recommend against this as well.
     
    #12 HTMLSpinnr, Jul 13, 2009
  13. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Dogfriend's hierarchy of needs:

    Safety > Longevity > Fuel Economy
     
    #13 dogfriend, Jul 13, 2009
  14. Gen 3 for me

    Gen 3 for me Member

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    Thanks for all the replies. I agree safety should be a concern above improved fuel economy.

    I kept the original post relatively short. I did not explain how I have adjusted my mirrors (yes, all 3) on all of my vehicles for the past 10 years since my insurance company made the recommendation (different than how most people adjust so the rear corners of the vehicle are visible). State Farm says the correct way to adjust is to eliminate the blind spots on the left and right. To adjust the drivers side mirror put your head against the side glass so the rear corner just becomes visible. For the passengers side adjust to see the right rear corner with your head almost to the center of the vehicle. Properly adjusted you can see all cars approaching in your rear view mirror, and then simultaneously the side mirror, then the side mirror alone, then in your peripheral vision. There is no more blind spot. You see the cars approaching from the rear, both sides, at all times, by using more than one mirror.

    So I was proposing one or two interior mirrors on each side not to see the rear corners of my own vehicle, but the spot that State Farm recommends (outboard) of the rear corner.

    The Federal standard is clear about the side mirrors being outside (not inside). I sure don't want to get any tickets.There is also the side air bag deployment and puncturing of the bag to consider, along with the possibility of injury to the front passengers if the radius of the inside mirror or bracket is not large enough.

    Does anyone know what kind of fuel savings others achieved by folding their side mirrors in?

    My goal in writing this post was to get everyone to think about what a aerodynamic vehicle the Prius is and how much more aerodynamic it would be without side mirrors. I love the creativity of our moderator's idea about the fish eye cameras. Just trying to stretch the boundaries of what is possible with this post.Without imagination little progress would be made. ;)
     
    #14 Gen 3 for me, Jul 14, 2009
  15. ZTrekus

    ZTrekus New Member

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    I reckon that would be an excellent upgrade for the 4th generation Prius... perhaps the sign of things to come. No more side mirrors. Only small cameras (like the reversing camera) and perhaps internal screens near the windows like mirrors.... reduce the co of d even more. Another Prius first.
     
    #15 ZTrekus, Jul 14, 2009
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    If AGW is real and we ever get around to seriously dealing with it, then this type of solution will be coming. 50 MPG is simply not good enough, we need well over 100 MPG, along with getting rid of the 'G's altogether.

    I have long used a mirror aiming pattern similar to that of the OP. There is no reason for the three mirrors to have more than a hair of overlap, it any. And by not having the outside mirrors see straight back, nighttime glare is significantly reduced.

    The Prius operatta windows are the perfect location for an internal active system (camera / LCD screen) to replace external mirrors. And they seem fairly close to the size and location needed if one thinks about trying to create an internal passive (mirror) system.

    I won't say that it will work right now. But it is certainly time for engineers and human factors folks to be seriously thinking about it.
     
    #16 fuzzy1, Jul 14, 2009
  17. bestmapman

    bestmapman 04, 07 ,08, 09, 10, 16, 21 Prime

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    At low speed the mirrors don't case any drag, but at high speed there is a significant MPG hit with them. It would be nice if there was a replacement for them without taking away the benefit.
     
    #17 bestmapman, Jul 14, 2009
  18. fgp

    fgp Active Member

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    one can easily remove both mirrors at the same time by by splitting lanes with 2 semis . this will immediately take the mirrors off and has the advantage of making the car much skinnier.
     
    #18 fgp, Jul 14, 2009
  19. ridegsxr714

    ridegsxr714 New Member

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    the fish eye camera/lcd screen thing has been done on custom cars and concepts alike for many years. GM used it recently on their CTS coupe concept. the cameras are in small apendiges coming from where a side view mirror would be, making it more aerodynamic(looks cooler too).
     

    Attached Files:

    #19 ridegsxr714, Jul 21, 2009
  20. FireEngineer

    FireEngineer Active Member

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    Side mirrors can have up to a .005 imapct on Cd I believe I have somewhere lying around. But if you move the mirrors away from the car by 80mm or so the impact they have is less. Look at your prius.

    Wayne
     
    #20 FireEngineer, Jul 21, 2009
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