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Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Advice

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by theowl, Jul 17, 2009.

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  1. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Jabber, thanks for the post. Having folks like you and Dianne (who work in this industry) take time from your evenings and weekends means a lot. The detail in your post was really helpful.

    That's a question that I will have to ask the dealership. The guy who called me used the terms sales and use tax, and it seemed like he was using them interchangeably. So, I am not sure I can answer your question.

    My biggest concern is that this dealer emphasized to me that I would "save 10%" (the amount of the DC tax on new cars) by getting the Prius. The finance guy even went out of his way to point this out to me on the lease contract. So, for them to turn around now, and say that is all wrong after I paid my money is my problem. I am hoping my visit to the dealer will go well.

    Thanks again for the advice. I really appreciate it.
     
    #21 theowl, Jul 18, 2009
  2. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Thanks, bikr357! I'm going to do my best to enjoy the rest of my vacation. I'll be sure to post how this works out after my visit to the dealer.
     
    #22 theowl, Jul 18, 2009
  3. Mr. Nelsby

    Mr. Nelsby New Member

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I wouldn't let the dealer sour you to the experience of the car itself... I'd call a lawyer personally. You'll spend a few bucks for them to review it and give you options, but I think it would be fun to call the dealer and say, "speak with my attorney."

    Might get an interesting reaction...
     
    #23 Mr. Nelsby, Jul 18, 2009
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  4. wvgasguy

    wvgasguy New Member

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Considering the dealership will have to take a hit on this they may be glad to just get out of it at no cost to them. I'd offer to PURCHASE the car at invoice LESS dealer holdback. They make nothing but then have no legal issues to deal with. You get a IV cheap (and the TAX break if you're in DC or at least the dediuction we all will get). In two years when you are ready to sell you will have a car that you can market and you will have about $3K less in it than everyone else and should be able to do OK.

    Other than that I'd probably walk away.
     
    #24 wvgasguy, Jul 18, 2009
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  5. Jabber

    Jabber Chicagoland Prius Guy

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    WVgasguy, while I respect your opinion, I can say that it will never happen. It is an invalid contract. One that Owl has signed that says he/she is responsible for the taxes. Or, the dealer will just take back the car and sell it for MSRP like all the rest. No way that they will sell it for no profit just to keep the hottest car we have right now on the road.
     
    #25 Jabber, Jul 18, 2009
  6. djasonw

    djasonw Active Member

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I am not an attorney but I would not think that the lease is void. However, in this instance I would think that the dealership would have to put up the money for the tax if the customer refuses to sign a new agreement. One thing is almost certain and that these tax incentives for hybrids are for purchases only. It would NOT make sense to give a customer a tax abatement on a lease because of the very nature of a lease. I may be wrong but I can't believe the law is written to favor the lessor. Makes no sense. Please keep us informed and perhaps do what Dianne said and convert it to a purchase. Or... maybe return the vehicle and get one from Dianne as she seems to know what's she's doing!!!!!
     
    #26 djasonw, Jul 18, 2009
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  7. Jabber

    Jabber Chicagoland Prius Guy

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    One more thing I forgot. When you signed the purchase order, you also agreed to the back of it. On the back, it says (on mine at least) something interesting. In short, if the sales contract is not acceptable to the third party finance (which this is), then the agreement shall become null and void. Dealership must contact the purchaser within 5 business days. From that point, the purchaser has 2 business day to return the vehicle.

    And further, it says that until a third party finance source approves this order and agrees to purchase the contract between the dealer and purchaser, that the dealer will not be bound by it. That lasts 30 days from the written date of the contract.
     
    #27 Jabber, Jul 18, 2009
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  8. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I'm sorry. I'm not a lawyer but I don't believe you're going to win this one. The DC sales tax exemption is on a SALE. You didn't buy a Prius you are paying for the use of a Prius so in the end you're going to have to cover it. If you aren't going to pay the tax to Toyota Credit every month you're going to have to pay it to DC.

    You accepted tax advice from a SALESMAN who, at best, is not well informed. Believe what the salesman says when documentation is provided.
     
    #28 JimN, Jul 18, 2009
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  9. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Jabber,

    Thanks for pointing this out. When I get back from vacation, I'll have to check into this. Thirty days definitely have not passed, so since Toyota is saying that the agreement is not valid, then the whole deal may be off. I'm seriously thinking of just dropping the car off and then going out to So. Cal. and getting a new Prius from Dianne! I'm in So. Cal. enough on business, and the idea of driving the Prius cross country back to DC is awfully appealing.
     
    #29 theowl, Jul 18, 2009
  10. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Thanks, Mr. Nelsby! I'm trying not to let the dealer's call sour me on a great car. Still, it's just hellishly frustrating to get such a crappy call right in the middle of my vacation. I've never had a dealer call and want to revisit any part of a contract after the agreement was inked. The most that has ever happened to us is that Mercedes called 3 months after we got our R Class (now departed) to say that they over-charged us. The FedExed us a check that arrived the next day with a hand written apology. So, all of this is new to me and little disturbing...
     
    #30 theowl, Jul 18, 2009
  11. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    I'm seriously thinking about it. :)
     
    #31 theowl, Jul 18, 2009
  12. Muhahahahaz

    Muhahahahaz Member

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    If you put something illegal into a contract, then it's not valid, pure and simple. If the tax is required by law, then whatever they signed is null and void.

    I can't very well force you to jump off a bridge just because you signed some paper saying that you would do so, now can I? :rolleyes:
     
    #32 Muhahahahaz, Jul 18, 2009
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  13. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Thanks. That's a good point. I had not considered that it was the dealership that violated the law by not collecting the tax, as is required. I'll be sure to bring that up with the dealership, if necessary.
     
    #33 theowl, Jul 19, 2009
  14. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Here's a minor update since I am still on vacation and have not gone to the dealership.

    I talked to a colleague who used to be former counsel for one of the Big 3 US automakers. I have not retained him (he is a corporate guy), but he gave me the name of the best attorney in the DC/VA area for these matters.

     He said that mistakes like these do occur from time to time and that they are easy to resolve. He said that most dealers will try to get more money from the customer, but they really do not have the authority to change the terms of the contract. In those situations where there’s an illegal contract (he said this sounds like one), there are two options: sign a new legal contract or walk away from the vehicle and turn it in for a full refund of all money paid.

     He also said that for any type of tax on the sale or lease of a new vehicle, it is the dealer's obligation to collect it at the time of the agreement. He said that this is an important customer protection. Without it, a dealer could sign an agreement with a customer to buy a car for $20,000 and then call in a few days and say, "For that car you just bought, we only charged you for the vehicle itself. Now we need another check from you: $2,000 for state sales tax, $500 for city/county tax, $150 for registration, $100 for titling, $50 for ...(you get the picture)."

    His bottom line recommendation is the following: Never respond to anything over the phone. He recommends that I get a written explanation from the dealer about the situation before talking to them again or going to the dealership. In fact, he said that the only types of communication that are considered official under the contract are written letters sent to the specified addresses in the contract. So, for the record, neither the dealership nor Toyota has made me aware of a problem at all. He said that I could go to the dealership and have an informal conversation, but – if I do – that I should not sign anything or make any commitments. If the dealer offers an acceptable resolution, then I should get it in writing.

    This sounds reasonable, but I wanted to see what others in the Prius Chat community think.
     
    #34 theowl, Jul 20, 2009
  15. Jabber

    Jabber Chicagoland Prius Guy

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    He would know more about the law than I, but he said basically the same thing as I (and others) did before. You can walk away, or agree to the new terms. That simple. If the dealership wants to adjust the pricing to compensate for the taxes they failed to collect, that is their decision. If the dealership says, sign here or else, you simply walk away. They cannot force you to sign anything. They can't sign your name. They cannot tell you that they are keeping the deposit, charging you for miles you put on the car, or charging for the time you had use of the vehicle.

    It really does come down to either agreeing to sign a new contract (whether terms have changed or not) or walking away and getting another one from another dealer. The other advice to tell the dealer to go pound sand and ignore this isn't very valid.. and I am sure your friend told you this.
     
    #35 Jabber, Jul 20, 2009
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  16. aapoppa

    aapoppa formerly known as "Popoff"

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    So when do you get back from vacation?

    The suspense is killing me!
     
    #36 aapoppa, Jul 20, 2009
  17. theowl

    theowl Prius Convert

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    aapoppa. I get back late Wednesday night. So, I should talk to the dealer again after that. Hopefully, all will be resolved quickly and easily. The suspense and waiting are getting to me, too!

    Jabber! Thanks again, and you are right - your advice and his were very much the same. That makes me feel good, and I really appreciate your views given your line of work! :)

    The new point he offered was that I needed to get everything in writing. He hit this one home many, many times during our talk. In fact, he emphasized that the only legally- and contractually-recognized form of communication under the terms of the lease agreement is written communication to the addresses noted in the contract. I definitely have to keep that in mind, though I am not opposed to having an informal discussion with the dealer.
     
    #37 theowl, Jul 20, 2009
  18. Jabber

    Jabber Chicagoland Prius Guy

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Very true on the written part. Of course, that is true with any legal issue. Nothing is binding when it is spoken. An informal conversation, which is what will really happen, will take place when you get back. The written part is a new contract if the dealer offers it. If not, just look on the back of the buyer's order (purchase order, agreement to purchase, etc) and the contract. There is the verbage that the dealer put into place to protect themselves, but it also gives you the out.
     
    #38 Jabber, Jul 20, 2009
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  19. RickFlashman

    RickFlashman New Member

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Verbal agreements are binding in this country. However, without a witness or a recording, it is very difficult to establish. Hence the recommendation to get it in writing. But it would be incorrect to say nothing is binding when spoken verbally. If the dealer says something verbally and I have a recording or witnesses, trust me, it's binding.
     
    #39 RickFlashman, Jul 20, 2009
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  20. gmalis1

    gmalis1 New Member

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    Re: Odd Call from Dealership - Dealership is Claiming that Toyota is Not Honoring My Lease - Need Ad

    Since you have been away on vacation, I wouldn't be surprised if you had a "nice" little letter from your dealer waiting for you when you return.

    I doubt that the dealer would put forth the effort to call you and NOT put it in writing.

    However, if you do NOT receive a written letter stating the problem as conveyed to you over the phone, I might think that the phone call you received may be a scam from your dealer to extort more money from your purchase.

    Personally, if the problem with your lease wasn't in a written letter addressed to you, I might be inclined to ignore the situation until you did receive a written letter. And I would have no hesitation in telling the dealer that.

    But that's just me. I would be plenty pissed that I am driving the car I picked out and supposedly leased in good faith, only to find out that the terms were invalid.

    And if you are "forced" to renegotiate with the dealer, unless the terms were amicable, such as NO increase in your monthly lease payment, I would turn back the car to them and never return...EVER!

    I am surprised that you are handling this as well as you are. I would be outraged and irate that a contract that the dealer and I had signed was now determined to be invalid. Give them the car back, ask for you deposit back...and for good measure throw your "smart key" on the roof of the dealership (as some dealers were known to have done to keep the customer captive).
     
    #40 gmalis1, Jul 21, 2009
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