Volt or Leaf?

I voted for the Nissan for two reasons: The Nissan is a pure EV, and I personally do not believe the Volt will ever actually be marketed.

The long explanatory notes accompanying the poll, which I presume Evan is quoting, and are not necessarily his own opinions, repeatedly talk about the cars in the present tense, indicative mood, when he should be using the future subjunctive, since neither car actually exists and all statements about performance are hypothetical and speculative.

Nobody, not even the manufacturers, knows what the specs will be on these cars!

You might as well ask whether Spiderman could beat the Incredible Hulk in a fight!

 

I needed another option: Which ever gets here first. A few more decades of waiting and we'll start another topic based on its comparative humor:

Cold Fusion or Warp Drive?

Give me SOMETHING . . . ANYTHING!

 

I'm neutral.

If it replaces my 2006 Prius, it would be the Volt.

If it's for a secondary car, meant for the Mon-Fri 8-5, then the Leaf.

 

Chevrolet Volt. I have nothing against the Leaf, but I prefer the interior of the Volt. PLUS, and this is really the main reason for my preference, I can use the Volt as my only car. I can't do so with the Leaf. I frequently take 300+ mile trips, and that would take several days with the Leaf--since it requires an overnight charge after each 100 miles.

But kudos to both companies.

 

FWIW, one of the Leaf videos shows quick charge stations that they expect to build a network of (highway rest stops? close to interstate restaurants?) that will fully charge it in 30 minutes. Obviously, this suffers from the same uncertainties as many issues around these cars - will they ever get built at all?

Personally, I voted Leaf, as apart from a couple of 1000ish mile trips a year to visit family, the rest of our driving is waaaaaay less than 100 miles at a pop. For the long trips, I'll just rent a Prius from Enterprise for $25 a day.

I'm a firm believer that you make these big purchases to cover your ordinary needs, not the extraordinary. It was a big leap to move from a family with a station wagon and a minivan to a family with a single Prius, and no second vehicle at all (other than our feet and our bikes) but it's worked out great. Total number of times we've had to rent a second car - 1 - for a single day. Total number of times we've had to rent a truck from Home Depot, etc. - 0. Total cost savings to our family from only having one car and having it be a Prius - thousands of dollars.

Cheers,

Dave

 

Agreed though the Leaf does have an edge for being #1

 

Note that in spite of the exaggerated mpg claims (based mostly on its performance while running electric, the Volt will probably get abysmal mpg numbers while running on gasoline (i.e. your entire road trip) due to their choice of a rather inefficient ICE. If you frequently take long road trips, you'd probably be better off sticking with the Prius.

 

No, I wouldn't be better off in a Prius. On long trips, the Volt will probably get 40-50mpg.

But while I take long trips once or twice a month, my daily commute is 8 miles round trip. That means no fuel used at all, vs. using fuel for the Prius.

Besides, I want an American made hybrid or electric car. Call me old fashioned, but I like this country and try to support its companies, people, and products.

 

The Volt is really a "plug-in hybrid." It just seems more electric because of the bigger battery. I'm not ready for a full electric car and won't be 'til there are outlets everywhere. Why buy inconvenience?

I really wish Toyota were more aggressive or at least more forthcoming with their schedule for a plug-in Prius. That would almost certainly be my choice over either of the cars in this poll.

Richard

 

Leaf: If your going for the EV might as well go all the way. Just make sure there is a dealer within battery range.

 

It really isn't a plug in hybrid. Hybrids use a gasoline engine to power the wheels and use an electric motor to assist/take over at lower speeds.

In the Volt, it's ALWAYS the electric motor doing the driving. The car runs on electricity 100% of the time. For the first forty miles, that electricity comes from the batteries. After that, a gasoline/ethanol engine generates the electricity and keeps the batteries at a certain level of charge.

 

By that definition, diesel/electric locomotives, ships and the huge earth movers aren't really serial hybrids.

 

Good luck with that. My guess is no better than 30 mpg, maybe as little as 25. Of course, since the car does not yet exist, all numbers are just speculation.

That's a very narrow definition. I'd offer a broader one: a hybrid is a vehicle that makes use of both a fuel-powered heat engine (whether internal or external combustion) and an electric motor, in any configuration that allows the heat engine and the electric motor to complement each other.

There are parallel hybrids, such as Honda's IMA system, serial hybrids such as all train locomotives in the U.S., and more complex hybrids such as Toyota's HSD, which has been called serial-parallel. All are "real" hybrids, and all offer the potential to be configured as PHEVs.

I actually think the concept of a plug-in serial hybrid with the battery functioning both as a reservoir for grid power for the first X miles, and then as a buffer to absorb excess ICE power so the ICE can always run at maximum efficiency or shut off when not needed, is an excellent concept. Unfortunately, when GM announced that the ICE in the Volt would not recharge the battery, they gave up one of the big advantages of a plug-in serial hybrid. And given their track record of screwing the country, and their strong dis-incentive to see people using grid power for transportation (since so much of their income comes from their petroleum holdings) I don't believe any of the hype about the Volt.

Nissan, on the other hand, has none of GM's contempt for the consumer, and no interest in oil, so I take their promised entry into the EV market much more seriously.

 

Daniel just said:

"Unfortunately, when GM announced that the ICE in the Volt would not recharge the battery, they gave up one of the big advantages of a plug-in serial hybrid."

How do you "thank" a poster? Daniel just saved me $40,000.

What is GM thinking? Or did they give their brains to the government along with their stock?

Richard

 

I don't think I saved you any money, because I don't believe that GM will ever market the Volt. Note that the announcement I referred to came long before GM went bankrupt and the government bought them out. GM has at least a half-century record of screwing the American public, going back to when they bought out the public transit systems of many major U.S. cities and dismantled them so people would have to buy cars.

I remember the old streetcar system (electric!) in Los Angeles when I was very little. It was a great system, and the streetcars were quiet and fun. GM tore out the system, and put diesel busses (noisy and stinky) in their place, and instead of every ten minutes or so, they ran once an hour for the most part. Getting from one part of town to another became a nightmare.

GM has led the fight against every safety feature, against every push for cleaner cars. GM led the industry innovation of pushing gas-guzzling behemoths on the American public.

And of course, its record on electric cars: When California required car makers to sell EVs, GM tried its best to make them as unappealing as possible, with an ad campaign designed to make them look bad; and it filed a lawsuit immediately. And when it won the lawsuit, it not only stopped making the cars, it took them back from the drivers and it crushed them!!!!!!!

Given their history, can anybody believe that GM will actually market anything resembling an electric car???

So, no, you'd never have spent that $40,000 because the car will never be marketed. And if they do market a car under the Volt name plate, it will be so undesirable that nobody will want to buy it. I'm guessing the 30-mile range (originally claimed at 40 miles) will end up being 5 or 6 miles, and the FE when running on gas will be about 25 mpg. (Sometimes, when I'm feeling generous, I guess 30 mpg. Bit that's stretching it, and today I'm thinking 25 may be overly generous.) Actually, I wouldn't put it past them to market a pure gasoline car and call it the Volt, with the "promise" that "when the batteries become available" they'll build a plug-in version.

Evan is going to be driving his 150-mile-range Tesla Model S at the same time as GM will be claiming they cannot build the Volt yet because the batteries for it do not exist.