:mad: VSC got me in an accident today

As I have seen discussed in other threads, we have noticed that hitting a bump while braking seems trigger VSC to disable braking for a moment.

Well, tonight with the help of our trusty VSC I was involved in a low-speed accident in which I rear-ended someone. Though I admit I was late in applying brakes, there still would have been *plenty* of time to stop before hitting the car in front of me. However, the VSC system kicked in-- and this time I don't even recall hitting a bump. Rather, I think since it was wet and I hit the brakes so suddenly, it caused some slippage which triggered the VSC-- and that was the end of that. For the next 2 full seconds (*not* exaggerating), I was getting virtually no braking despite the fact that I was pushing the pedal through the floor. What *seemed* like an eternity later we until finally hit the car ahead of me. BTW, our windows were down and I certainly would have heard skidding if that was the case. And, yes the VSC light was flickering the whole time so I'm sure it was the culprit.

Fortunately, I was only going about 10 mph when I hit the brakes (maybe 5 when I hit him), so the damage was limited mark on his bumper (waiting to see if he's going to milk me for this).

So for starters, I'm frustrated as heck with VSC. The dealer says I can pay $110 to have them check the computer for error codes, but its my impression that that's just going to be wasted money due to my experience and reading that, insanely, Toyota engineers apparently feel periodically removing my ability to break is a worthwhile "safety" feature and that it cannot be disabled.

Second, the dealer tells me there's no way to get data from the data recorder. Is that really the case? I would love to have any data the recorder might have if this guy tries to take me through the ringer for the scuff mark on his bumper. It sure would be nice to prove how I hit the brakes in what should have been plenty of time (though I'm not sure how much good it would really do me). Does anyone know a way to get that data?

 

Okay... is that different, in turn, from ABS? Whatever happened to pulsed braking? There was certainly no pulsing of the brakes going on. What's the point of ABS if traction control is just going to disable braking altogether?

 

I've had the Prius for 3 years -- I'm not new to it. Yes, its barrels of fun in the winter to whip around corners with with the VSC beeper screaming at you.

I'm not arguing that I didn't notice he was stopped as soon as I should have-- my bad on that account. But it certainly should have been plenty of time to stop in any car that a computer chip didn't override me.

Have you never had the experience where ABS/VSC/TractionControl triggers when you hit a bump while braking and then prevent you from braking afterward? I'm not arguing that this "feature" is intentional-- but I think its dangerously oversensitive. Without it, I could have stopped at least 2 car-lengths back from where I did. Probably 1 car length back on ice.

So who reads the data for the police? Why should I need a judges permission to access data from a product I own? Granted, I'm guessing it may not be worth the price whoever it is that can do it would charge, but it seems pretty wrong that someone can install technology on a product to monitor things the person does, but then could legally prevent that person from accessing the data.

 

If you think that's bad here, you should visit Portland this fall.

 

We replace the tires last year with Goodyear Assurance ComforTred tires (about 8 months ago). Goodyear gives them a "8" for wet traction vs "6" for the factory installed Integrity's (wish we had gone with a different tire or that the FuelMax was out when we replaced the tires-- we definitely noticed a mpg hit )

... and maybe they could use my blackbox data to advance their "traction control system" (I use the term very loosely) as well...

 

Okay, well, for argument's sake, lets leave out my incident today and talk about the lack of braking after hitting a bump since many have experienced that. What I don't understand is why the car apparently removes braking from all wheels at once when one of them loses traction. It seems like it would be straight forward enough for the car to identify which wheel or wheels are slowing faster to the others and cut braking there (and for only a split second).

What seems downright dangerous to me is the fact that the car seems to immediately cut brake power to all wheels once one of them slips and then seems to double and triple check that all wheels are rolling in sync before attempting to re-apply any brake power.

Don't get me wrong, I love our Prius. It's a great product. I just am annoyed the philosophy that apparently goes into the engineering of the traction control. If in doubt, the thing should brake where it instead seems to go to great lengths to be sure it's not going to skid before breaking while in the meantime it has coasted well beyond where a skid would have taken it. I know this is subjective (outside of the data hiding in my blackbox), but I've been driving for a couple decades now and I think I have a pretty good idea about how a car should be able to handle.

I agree that I should have not been be in a situation where stiff braking is required to avoid an accident, but it seems to me the purpose "safety" is to increase my chances when I get into a bad spot, not decrease them. I guess if no one knows of a way to get data from my black box, you'll have to take my word that a 1980 Chevy Suburban with bald tires and no active "safety" systems would have easily been able to stop.

BTW, the light turned green, traffic started moving, I was distracted by my wife handing me a snack, I looked up and saw the car ahead had stopped to turn left... we've all done it. I swear, I'm not a monster.

 

All I can say is I was there and you weren't. If there was any sort of deceleration after the "traction control" kicked in, it sure wasn't perceptable to me. We we coasting-- and for a long time.

I've done more searching and found this post among others which may as well have been my description of my accident except that we hit a Jetta, not an Impalla and (thankfully) only left a scuff mark not a several thousand dollar repair.

I called the police today and asked about the blackboxes. He told me that many automakers such as GM make equipment available to retrieve the data, but that Toyota does not. He said (as someone previously stated) that when there is a crash that results in a death, they request the data, but that subpoenas need to be issued, that it all goes through Toyota corporate and that it is a long and difficult process even for them. Also, he said that even if they did make the equipment available as GM does, it would still cost multiple thousands of dollars. Basically, he said, the only time it would be worth it is in a court case where a lot more is at stake than a scuffed bumper.

Basically, its the principle of the whole issue that gets under my skin. By preventing me from accessing the data, Toyota can easily refute (just as Dutchman and others have done) that their traction control in any way can contributed to my accident or any others. Maybe this is all fixed in the 2010 model, but I still prefer Toyota be forced to address this issue-- what if the Jetta I hit had been an old lady?

I think this weekend I'm going to try to set up a test comparing the stopping distance of my Prius when hitting the brakes hard at about 10 - 15 mph on a bumpy road vs a friend whose car has standard, pulsing, anti-lock brakes. I'll let you know how that goes and maybe even will post YouTube video.