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Plug-In Conversions 6.5kw Kit installation

Discussion in 'Prius PHEV Plug-In Modifications' started by imwoody36, Aug 31, 2009.

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  1. factual

    4 vote(s)
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  2. not enough info

    0 vote(s)
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  3. self promoter ....boo

    2 vote(s)
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  4. best to date

    3 vote(s)
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  1. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    Hello Everyone
    I am Steve Woodruff, I will share information about the Plug-In Conversions kit from a dealer perspective in this thread.
    first some Backround.
    I shadowed a PICC installation at Ewert Energy systems as documented here on youtube


    if you care to see the crate there is another video here

    and here are photos of the installation.
    DISCOUNTED INSURANCE SALVAGE
     
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  2. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    I wish to report we installed a Plug In Conversions kit last week here at AutoBeYours.com The 13500 dollar kit arrived well packed 6 weeks after we paid for it as expected and promised.
    Missing installation diagrams were emailed by Kim at Plug-in Conversions quickly.
    We spent a day locating the Brusa charger profile software, and the rs232 to usb adapter. finally resolving to use an old laptop with an rs232 plug.
    we spent another half a day locating the 70 dollar tool to crimp Anderson connectors.
    Ewert Energy overnighted a missing Hybrid energy module ( that thing to make the prius go 70mph in all electric mode).
    They then emailed the missing software to allow the driver to turn the system on.
    ( fortunately I owned a Candapter required to use said software on a laptop).
    the first 7 miles were over 255 mpg. then an engine racing issue came up.
    selecting normal phev mode resolved this for now.
    I expect to post more results as they are available....
    I believe picc is experiencing growing pains, and will give them the benefit of the doubt to improve the final product.
    Aug 31 2009
    I have received support from Ewert Energy, They are concerned about the engine racing issue and advised us to unplug the HEM module until a software revision could be installed. I understand this will be something the user can accomplish.

    To be clear , We expected a method to enable the driver to select phev modes and to give the driver feedback as to what the system was doing.

    PICC has indicated a 7 inch screen will be available for those who dont want to provide a laptop. I told them that the system was like a supercomputer with no mouse and no keyboard
     
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  3. bikr357

    bikr357 Plugged in Member

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    I am the owner of the aforementioned conversion. The car operates quite differently with the larger battery pack, I can tell it wants to GO using just the battery and the MG's when it first comes off the charger. I've got 12 miles clocked thus far today in Short PHEV mode (0-30 mile trips) and it still showing a high state of charge (green bars).

    The ICE racing, which is a rapid acceleration and deceleration of the ICE without a change in vehicle speed, has occurred in both short and long trip PHEV modes.

    At the Ewert's direction the HEM (hybrid energy module) has been disconnected a log files which will allow them to trouble shoot the control systems will be uploaded to them later today.

    In today's short trip mode, the ICE seldom came on and then immediately turned off as soon as I let up on the throttle. Now with the HEM removed I'm operating in the Medium trip PHEV mode (30-60 mile trips) without the HEM module installed.

    More info and impressions to follow...
     
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  4. eMileage

    eMileage Member

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    Thanks for the updates and congratulations on your new PHEV!
     
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  5. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    I would like to know if people upgraded their suspension due to the added weight of this kit. If you did, what did you change?
     
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  6. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    Yes, The rear coil springs were replaced. They were included with the PICC kit at extra charge.
     
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  7. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    nice info steve.

    what i do not understand is how is the new pack cooled?
    the oem fan cooling is now used for the charger cooling if i am correct so where are the cooling fans for the new plugin battery pack...

    and what do you mean with ice racing isue? do you have a video about that or more info.
    is this happening at what voltage? ( maybe a low voltage like below 195 ? )
     
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  8. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    A molded plenum is included..and an additional muffin fan assists airflow.
    this is directed both toward the new pack and through the "old" battery enclosure.

    see the youtube video for an inside view.
    [​IMG]



    the ICE racing issue is software related, and only happens on 2006 and newer pruii...acording to Andrew Ewert. He is examining log files from this prius and working daily on the solution.
     
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  9. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    Hi Steve,

    I've been following your posts and company for about a year. I found out about your company from George Gladic during HybridFest 2008 at his presentation on the plug in conversion you did on his vehicle, and had a chance to ride along with him for a test drive.

    George is an avid EV promoter and driver.

    Tonight I was just reading your post about the PICC conversion, and I have some questions I hope you don't mind answering. I'm interested in performing this conversion on my Prius and have been watching for install details such as what you provided.

    A few questions:
    - Do you have any more video or photos of the conversion, and the additional parts that get installed (CPU, control screen, battery, charger, etc)?
    I have them on the link above and I will make another YouTube Video when I get it edited together.

    A 12volt battery tender, a brusa charger, a new bms, a fan, and a big box of batteries are added.

    I am interested in what the final control system screens looks like. Is this a separate touchscreen (Lilliput) like that used on the 06+ CANview or does it interface to the OEM MFD?
    It came without any method of user interaction... a huge handicap.
    I purchased a Candapter and persuaded PICC to email a copy of the display program so we could see what mode the car was in and the SOC,
    also to select short, medium or long trips.
    this is done with a user supplied laptop.
    I have spoken with Kim Aldeman and he mentioned it is similar to the CAN view with their own adaptations.
    Yes, He informs me a display is under development, the delay is locating a mobile computing platform that will run Java ( linux works), boot very fast, and consume no power when asleep.

    Do they use the CAN View system with their firmware adaptations?
    not anymore.
    Is a laptop required for the system monitoring / control?


    You mentioned in the video that a 7" touchscreen would be forthcoming (ie Lilliput?) Does the system come with the required computer?
    ...

    - I understand the OEM battery is removed during this process and replaced with the Gold Peak part along with various components of the stock Toyota BMS.

    My car is still under the 7yr/100k factory warranty, and I like the idea of retaining the original OEM components in case (heaven forbid) I ever need to convert back to stock.

    That said, I would like to find out what parts are required from the battery box during the conversion. Is it everything minus the OEM NiMH cells?
    Yes.

    If I proceed, I would be more comfortable purchasing the required components (ie a complete battery box with BMS, current sensors, etc - everything minus the OEM NiMH cells) from a salvage 2005 Prius to use with the conversion, and leave my stock battery box intact. Do you have any such parts or a battery box from a salvage vehicle? If so, what would the price be for the required parts so I don't have to modify my OEM pack?
    sure. about 200. .perhaps more.


    - I have already installed the JDM OEM EV button. Is this part of the Plug In Conversions modification?
    No.
    Do they need access to that control line with their system or
    is it ok to leave it installed?
    You may leave it, but the system will already be making the prius behave like the evmode Prius you want.

    - Do you know what the temperature limitations of the battery / charger are during recharge?
    No, I expect that is intellectual property of PICC.
    Where I live, it gets quite warm, and can exceed 110F in the shade during summer. Is there a thermal cutoff during charging?
    Yes.
    How many thermal sensors are on the pack?
    one outside and I think 3 inside.

    - how was the ease of installation? Did you have to do a lot of fabrication or was most everything included aside from minor ususal fabrication?
    I have to say there were delays, but they were as listed earlier in this thread
    waiting for brusa software and tracking down a dongle, waiting for installation instructions, waiting for the display software,
    although all the fittings, hardware, grommets, and steel were included.


    - What was your opinion on the fit and finish of the kit? Well polished and high quality? The black battery box is handsome and oozes professionalism.


    How would you rate the value compared to other kits (ie Hymotion, Plug-in-supply)?
    although unfair to compare because the method is different
    specifically, contactor based -vs- pack replacement.

    The Plugin supply kits work because they are simple.
    (if you call spoofing and brute force current availability simple)

    The Plug in Conversions kits have beefier cables, fancier thermal management,fancier spoofing and the Ewert brothers.
    ( they formerly were with Plugin supply)
    I have no experience with Hymotion kits.The two I have seen work apparently.

    Some of these questions I may have to address to Kim. I spoke with him a few weeks ago, and he said he would be out of the country for a few weeks travelling on business. I'll direct any questions you can't answer to him, I'm just looking for a 3rd party view on this given that only a couple people have actually installed and used this system.

    Best regards,
    Nathan

    Yup, Kim was mostly unavailable for support due to overseeing his manufacturing in Asia somewhere.
    I see room for product improvement especially when it is towards the high end price wise.
    I also believe Kim when he says to me he will make they system right for my customer.
     
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  10. TheForce

    TheForce Stop War! Lets Rave! Make Love!

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    I don't know if this has been answered somewhere but what is the total usable energy? Can I use the whole 6.5kWh or does this system limit the SOC like the OEM battery? If 6.5kWh is the max capacity of the battery what is the SOC range this battery is using to make its life last longer?
     
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  11. bikr357

    bikr357 Plugged in Member

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    Give me a few days to compile the SOC information and try to identify the SOC transition points.

    Today was the first day to put the car through its paces in a morning commute. It involved driving about 12.5 miles equally split between street driving less than 40 and expressway driving at 60 and below (it was rush hour after all). With a full charge and the car in PHEV mode handled nicely with the ICE kicking in only when I got a little aggressive on the pedal. When backing off the pedal just a little, the car seamlessly went back to full EV.

    On the uphill overpass grades the ICE would tend to kick in for short period at low rpm’s. It was clear that MG2 was doing all the work. I arrived at work with what appeared on the computer display to be two less bars on the computer display screen than I started with (but there was no change on the MFD; as the MFD charge display doesn’t change until the batteries are depleted to the point the car reverts to standard hybrid mode).

    Following the morning commute, I had to go to a business meeting with involved freeway travel. At 65 mph I was seeing a favoring of the batteries, which diminished over time, until the car automatically (and seamlessly) transitioned to the hybrid mode. This occurred at 35 miles into the day’s mileage. From that point on I’ve seen mileage in the 48 to 50 mpg range.

    Early this afternoon I’ve been contacted by Kim Adelman (Plug-In Conversions Corporation) and Chris Ewert (their actions not mine, it feels great to be wanted). Kim has informed me that I got a control module which lacked the latest software update which allows a seamless transition from the hybrid mode back to the PHEV mode when the battery reaches a level of charge which allows it. Chris in his email communicated the same thing. At the moment I have to make that change manually before I start in the morning. Anyway, Kim personally committed to travel to Houston to ensure the software update went off seamlessly. We are making plans for this to occur in the next two weeks.

    Regarding the HEM and the engine surging issue in ’06 and newer cars, Kim told me that they were testing several modules to isolate the issue this week and that they expect a resolution within the month. That installation will be simple, it’s a plug-in play module. He also committed to providing the display unit at no additional cost once they complete its development. That would be great, then I could get rid of the tangle of wires in my passenger seat that connects to my laptop.
     
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  12. sparkyAZ

    sparkyAZ übergeek

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    Great info, Steve! I'm looking forward to more info on this conversion.
     
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  13. sparkyAZ

    sparkyAZ übergeek

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    It occurred to me that one way to accomplish the thermal management of charging in a warm climate would be to borrow an idea from the 3G Prius - use the HVAC system to draw in outside air to ventilate the cabin. The best way would be if the HVAC blower could be controlled through the CAN bus (I'm not sure if it can) such that the BMS could kick it on during recharge if the cabin temperature exceeded some preset limit. More elegantly, the HVAC fan speed could be varied according to the ambient temperature. Of course, the blower alone can draw ~10 to 12 Amps on high speed, so the battery tender would have to be able to supply this much plus a bit extra to maintain the 13.8v battery.

    I suppose in an extreme case you could even control the AC compressor to maintain a comfortable environment for recharging at the expense of higher electrical demand on the PHEV charging system.

    If the HVAC system can't be CAN bus controlled... well, there's always Hobbit's blower motor hack.
     
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  14. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    I can make the blower operate and at variable speed through the CAN bus at more expense, but operating the A/C compressor would require the inverter to be in "ready" on condition...we can also do this upon ambient conditions but vehicle theft becomes an issue. The immobiliser , engine and hv ecu's all must recognize the key to go into ready. more and more systems then need to be involved.

    Perhaps a solid state solution is more practical, like several peltier devices
    they are power hungry, but so are the other options.

    Kim tells me new battery chemistry is around the corner that is much more tolerant of temperature extremes.
     
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  15. Flying White Dutchman

    Flying White Dutchman Senior Member

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    blower control is a option at more expense?
    do i read this correclty?
    it looks like there are a lot of extra expense stuff that ( lcd screen ) i think need to be standard

    so the Nimh battery cells will be replaced... any time soon?
     
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  16. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    Please dont confuse my comments with pricing from plugin conversions, I am only the installer.
    I was answering sparky's question or suggestion for theoretical design.

    I am the guy who rebuilds wrecked pruii in Indiana.
     
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  17. sparkyAZ

    sparkyAZ übergeek

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    Since it is possible to control the blower motor via the CAN bus, and the BMS system has 3+1 temperature sensors, it would only make sense that the system would be designed to automatically engage the fan to draw in outside air to cool the cabin during recharge. It should only take a firmware update to their controller and no special hardware.

    The A/C control sounds like it would be too involved, which I can understand as the HV battery would have to be on-line for this to work. Anyways it's probably best to leave the pack disconnected via the contactors during recharge. And then there would be the theft risk, as you said.

    Depending on the time it takes to fully recharge a depleted pack, the thermal management can be controlled to some extent. If I arrive at work around 7:30 am and it takes 6hrs to recharge, the charge cycle would terminate around 1:30pm, which is a few hours before the peak daily temperatures. I have covered parking, which helps too.

    It would be interesting if the Ewert instrumentation included temperature datalogging to allow downloading of a thermal profile of the cabin and batteries during recharge.
     
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  18. imwoody36

    imwoody36 the prius parts guy

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    Just sending a message on the can bus, will fall on deaf ears, if the body control ecu is not " on"

    sw
     
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  19. linuxpenguin

    linuxpenguin Active Member

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    Hi TheForce,

    Just FYI, the usable SOC range on the PICC pack is about 20% to 90%. The batteries are the same as the Prius (Nickle Metal Hydride) and so once you dip down into the low 20s the battery voltage begins to sag so it is limited in order to extend the life of the battery pack (similar to how the Prius battery SOC is limited).

    Andrew

     
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  20. krousdb

    krousdb NX-74205

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    So 70% DoD? To answer Jay's question, that comes out to 4.5kWh useable.
     
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