Don't assume your Toyota dealer will use the correct oil.

Oh, I would *love* to see that "official" TSB. The first step, he'd have to reach pretty far up his butt to find it

Exactly

I can only imagine, and I'm fairly certain I don't want to know, either

And so it begins ....

 

I really don't know that the problem falls at the feet of Toyota corporate.

I was the first to order a 2010 Prius delivered to my dealer (another arrived two days earlier and was sold the day mine arrived), but I already had started questioning the dealer about many issues. The day I got the car, I checked the manual and confirmed the 0W-20 oil situation. Immediately, I went to the service manager. He already was aware of the issue (the sales force wasn't and neither was the service rep I talked with). He told me they would use the Toyota 0W-20 oil and there likely would be an up-charge.

Not all service managers are alike.

Some people just never learn that it is preferable to say "I don't know but I'll check on that and get back to you right away" as opposed to just lying. But lying is so much easier.

 

They deserve to get bashed around the head and shoulders because they accept this. Toyota franchises are embarrassingly slimey in many cases. If Toyota would pull franchises or otherwise SERIOUSLY ding the franchisee when they screwed the customer via lies and deception, I doubt we would see these kind of problems.

This is a top down problem.

Yep, had a company that I worked for with that sort of problem. Finally, after we parted ways I said to the owner after he told me yet another lie and I caught him in it, "Why tell a lie when the truth will do just fine?" He didn't gain anything from the lie, and had he told me the truth the heat would have been off of him. Instead he was trying to save himself some mild embarrassment by misrepresenting the financial state of his company.

 

I do see what you mean, and I understand your frustration with the way franchisors at times do not reign in unruly franchisees (who continue to pay!).

 

If you get bad service one place, and good at a 2nd place, let us all know the names and locations of both.

At Capistrano Toyota they said oil changes would be free (for at least a year). I have yet to check out what oil they will use.

 

Yes. Or if not outright lying, making crap up and hoping against hope that either the answer is right (very unlikely) or no one will find out that it isn't (somewhat less unlikely). Reminds me of my first day as a teaching assistant in grad school--the prof went around the room and made all 27 of us say the words, out loud--while being acutely aware that it didn't kill us to do so--"I...DON'T...KNOW."

It really isn't that hard, none of us are perfect, and we all appreciate the honesty.

Meanwhile--this in reference to my email to Toyota and a dealership enshrined a few miles (sorry, kilometers for the rest of the world) back on this thread--I finally heard back from Toyota today. Most of it was a canned response saying they were sorry I wasn't satisfied, we strive for excellence, blah blah blabbita blah. (Don't you just love that? The problem is 'I wasn't satisfied', not 'they messed up'...). To their credit, they did offer to serve as a go-between between me and the dealership. One pearl of information they did include in the correspondence is the following:

"The recommended viscosity oil for the 2010 Prius is SAE 0W-20. This information is readily available to Toyota dealerships."

Not to get all Clintonian in parsing words and such, but as to whether it is the dealership or corporate who deserves the blame, I do not know, but perhaps it depends on what "readily available" means. Toyota has sent out numerous bulletins on the subject? The techs can find it if they know where to search? If they can read the owner's manual? If they can recognize a Gen III from a II? I sure don't know. I still think that, since this issue seems so widespread, Toyota could be doing a better job. Of course there are some out there who have had good experiences. To which I would say, reward good behavior and punish bad.

They also said "It is through correspondence such as yours that we are able to continue to improve dealership services." While this sounds like a typical platitude, I may take them up on their offer to mediate, just to perhaps draw more attention to what seems to be a widespread issue.

 

I think Toyota did two things the dealer's service folks should be able to see rather easily:

1. The manual clearly states 0W-20 oil; and
2. The oil fill cap says 0W-20.

 

Perhaps this will help:



If this view, upon opening the hood, doesn't really offer much assistance, then this view should:



Of course, one never knows where the shop towel may fall or if the reading glasses had been lost somewhere else. . .

 

Yes, it is completely the fault of Toyota the Corporation. I say this as THEY are responsible for "edumacating" the dealerships.

It's not good enough to keep the Toyota sign on the building, as long as the franchise fees are promptly paid. Many of the sludge issues were caused by owners who followed the book, but the crap generic API oil wasn't up to it

If the sludge issue had been caused by a handful of owners who never, ever changed their factory oil past 3 years or 30,000 miles, the class action lawsuit wouldn't have had a chance in hell of succeeding.

I agree

Oh, you have GOT to be shi**ing me!

Somehow it was a bigger concern that *you* were not satisfied, instead of the fact the dealership f***ed up. Oh boy.

If I were you, stay far, far away from that dealership. Who knows, might go in for a simple tire rotation, and the wheels will fall off at highway speed

I was invited to my dealership a few months ago when they introduced the 2010's. Pop the hood and presto, there is the oil filler cap. It doesn't say 20W-50, or 15W-40, or Crisco, it says 0W-20

 

If the dipsh!t service writer, service manager, prius tech, grease monkey, or lot boy who's changing the oil even mentions the wrong oil gets whacked with a dipstick then admonished to "start thinking with your dipstick, Jimmy" I'll bet things would change pretty quickly.

Of course it may be that said dealer employees are illiterate so it isn't their fault they can't read the printing on the oil cap.

Toyota's canned response is infuriating. I'd call and express my dissatisfaction rather loudly & coarsely. Some poor bimbo on the Oldsmobile line got quite an earful once.

 

I agree, it's annoying. But now it's your choice whether to keep beating that horse until it sings, or buy your own oil and have someone else put it in (self, another dealer, an independent, etc.). Or keep going to the first dealer and rely on duffer to make good on the warranty if something breaks :_>

By The Way, did Toyota repeat the oil capacity mistake they made in Gen II? How much oil really is required for a change in Gen III?

 

Or do it yourself

I let mine drain real well, and the level with four quarts is exactly where the article said it would be, about 7mm or so down from full. I let my vehicle sit overnight on level ground and check it in the morning.

 

I took 4 quarts of Mobil 1 and the filter cartridge to a local dealer. Told them to put the 4 quarts in and I would top off the with what ever was needed.

When I got it home I checked and it was around the midway mark of low and full. It should take 4.4 qts I believe and I added a little over a cup to bring it about 3/4 up from low. I like it to be a little under the full mark.

 

To bring it to the full line takes 4.6qts. I'm going to run it at the halfway mark from now on (4qt)

 

I can only assume that they don't RTFM. If they have the TechStream laptop they already have a couple of years of access to TIS. They'd better be keeping that up to date if they plan to handle the 2010 Prius. Security Professional-level access is $800 per year. Printed manuals are available and I'd be surprised if TMS didn't send at least one copy to every dealer.

I'm sure the information is there, it just isn't read.

For the 2006 service manual set, section 'LU - 1NZ-FXE Lubrication' starts like this:

ON-VEHICLE INSPECTION

1. CHECK ENGINE OIL LEVEL

(a) Warm up the engine, then stop the engine and wait
for 5 minutes. Check that the engine oil level is
between the low and full marks on the oil level
gauge.

If the engine oil is low, check for oil leaks and add
engine oil up to the full mark.

NOTICE:
Do not add engine oil above the full mark.

2. CHECK ENGINE OIL QUALITY

(a) Check the oil for deterioration, water intrusion,
discoloring or thinning.
If the oil quality is visibly poor, replace the oil.

Oil grade:
Use API grade SL "Energy-Conserving", or
ILSAC multi grade engine oil.
SAE 5W-30 is the best choice for good fuel
economy and good starting in cold weather.
If SAE 5W-30 is not available, SAE 10W-30 may
be used.
However, it should be replaced with SAE 5W-
30 at the next oil replacement.

Instead Gen 2 owners get too much of whatever bulk-grade oil the dealer had. Why would you think this would be different for Gen 3?

 

If I had to guess, this is much more of a problem in the North American market than elsewhere. Not only are the API oil standards complete crap compared to the ACEA specs in the EU, but the oil change intervals are 1/2 to 1/4 as long as you would find in the EU

The many "kwik loob" places here still helpfully print on the service reminder an oil change every 3 months or 3,000 miles.

Folks have become so used to that brainwashing, that if you mention cars in the EU having a 24 month or 30,000 mile oil change interval, look out. They will at the very least look at you as if you just stepped out of a flying saucer.

 

For some things, yes. But when it comes to things like the oil quantity the manual for the GenII is wrong and so are the updates. Hell, Toyota ships the GenII overfilled from the factory. :frusty:

 

The OM says 4.4qts.
I dumped in 4qts, waited a few, and checked the dipstick.
It was ~1/2 way between the low & full marks.
Added 4oz, then checked....added 4oz more, checked again....
I settled on 4qts & 12oz, which brought the level just about 1/16" below the full mark.
4.375 Qts.................:cheer2:
It's still at the same level ~500miles later......

 

The manual is wrong for the FJ Cruiser too. If you put in the recommended amount of oil, the level is almost 6mm above the full dot

 

Had my first oil change at the dealer today. I supplied the oil, just 4 quarts, and told them I'd top if off at home. The service writer initially protested the lack of a 5th quart, for only one sentence, then quickly agreed.

The dipstick level seems to be ~3/4 of the way between the low and high marks. At this level, it seems that no topping off is necessary.

I started doing this a few oil changes ago with the Subaru. It has come back full each time. Should have started doing it two decades ago with other cars, when I quit changing my own oil. It would have prevented a number of overfills.