Loss of oil pressure

if that was mine they'd be pulling the oil pan and dropping a rod and a main cap and I'd be the one determining how much damage was done to the engine. So much as a mark on the bearings and they'd be putting in a new ICE.

 

Wow... and we get bent out of shape over oil overfills!

Looking into my crystal ball, I see you on the phone to Toyota USA Monday morning...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bluedogpoker\";p=\"99702)</div>

Wise decision! My daughter and grandkids have gone through 3 well-broken-in engines by "nursing their cars" into a convenient service facility. In each case, their cars drove fine for a while. Hotter than usual, but not much else. UNTIL oil leaks, or a sudden increase in oil consumption warned of permanent engine damage. Rapid deterioration followed, in the form of serious overheating and connecting rod, or main bearning knock. One went to bearing siezure and bearing insert spinning (destroying the crank throw). Sorry to be a wet blanket, but both cooling and lubrication of oil is critical to most, if not all, mechanical devices.

I believe the extended warranty to be a valuable supplement to Toyota's standard, but it isn't likely that that would make me feel more comfortable in your shoes. Lucky you were close enough to the dealer to take the load off the ICE immediately.

 

Offer to accept a new engine in lieu of suing them, and see if they drop the $500 bullshit. If they didn't break anything, that's another $500 profit for their ineptitude. I'd tell them to pound sand.

 

I would call Toyota on Monday. This is very bad. My wife fried a engine doing that. Even a short distance with very low or no oil will damage an engine. It is interesting that the computer shut the ICE off and let you drive with the motor.

 

That's an interesting point--even without gauges, the computer detected the low pressure and shut down the ICE--probably faster than a distracted or inattentive driver (who should be looking out the windows anyway) would notice the drop, conclude what to do, then shut it off.

 

Oh I hate to see this. The first thing I thought is that you are driving a Prius with 6000 miles on it and this happens. Your car is STILL new at 6000 miles. There is a good possibility that you will have problems down the road. Or Maybe not. But at this point who knows what might or might not happen.? After reading this post I got out my warranty book. Guess what it says under 'what is not covered'? yep.. Improper repairs. So Now I will tell you what I would do in this case.
First thing you need is the original receipt showing when you had the oil changed. Then you need the receipt showing when you took it back and it needs to state that there was no oil int the engine and that the drain plug came out. Take both receipts to the general manager of the dealership and ask him how he want to handle this problem.
You have a warranty on the car and engine but now there is a work order that states the car ran out of oil. Do you think this is TOYOTA's problem?
Nope..See the 'what is not covered' Improper repairs.
Buy a 100,000 mile "Platinum" Toyota Factory warranty? Again see: 'what is not covered'? Improper repairs.

What I am getting at is this. This is not a Toyota Motor Corp or a Toyota Extended problem. This is the dealership that performed the 'improper repair' problem.
I would ask when the next Prius in your option group and color is coming in and tell them to reserve it for you. They can buy your Prius back and put you in a new Prius that you know will be trouble free. And while you are at it tell them to throw in the extended warranty for your trouble!

So In plain english Just so you understand me: Toyota and the extended company did not mess up your new car. The dealership did. Because the dealership has this on record and toyota corp has access to this they (toyota) can refuse to warranty future problems.
I would not want The dealership removing the oil pan to 'inspect the engine' That leaves you open to future oil leaks on your 6000 mile engine. Do you think the dealership will fork over 6, 7 ,or 8 grand for a factory "NEW" engine? And if they do how long will you have to wait for the engine to arrive? (How long did it take for you to get the car)
Nope I would want a new car. Start with the general manager and if they are not helping call Toyota and take it from there. I have worked at car dealerships for over 25 years now and have seen a few cars get bought back.

Sorry for the rambling on but this is how I would handle this if it were to happen to me.
Good luck!
Steve

 

At highway speeds a sudden loss of oil pressure can destroy a motor in under 10 seconds. The rod poking out the bottom is always good for a laugh.

There is no way you can determine if bearing rollers/balls haven't been scratched, the cage damaged, or races even gouged/spun. That sort of damage isn't readily apparent and can take time to progress to a noticeable noise or failure.

They were incompetent and apparently they put it in writing? So it's their fault. At the very least, new ICE. Preferably new Prius. Maybe mention that you're speaking to a lawyer, that always seems to put the fear of God in them.

 

But if the "improper repair" was done by an authorized Toyota technician, then Toyota is liable, whether under the car warranteee or not.

This can cost you thousands down the road if it damaged internal engine parts.

I might make an offer like this: "Hey, Toyota, you know used Priuses are selling at new MSRP today. Tell you what, you give me a new one, you take the old, and we call it even. Or you can install a brand new factory engine."

If they are SO SURE they did no damage, then they should take the offer. I would make it in writing, and CC Jacoby and Meyers.

 

Sorry to hear about your problem,Bluedog, . Must have been a young lube tech but I will keep all opinions to myself. Keeping neutral here.

As for the point of when the light comes on, I looked it up in the repair manual. Testing the lubrication system,Toyota states that at idle you should have 4.2 lbs or more of oil pressure with a warm engine. Couldn't find any specifically on when the light comes on, but would assume it isn't much from the pressure reading specs.

 

Hate to say it... but this may partly fall on your shoulders as well- because you did continue to drive the car even with all the warning lights on. Even in electric mode. Because who knows what the engine was trying to do? Bad, bad, bad, BAD idea. This could (I won't say "will" but it really could) get the dealership out of any obligation to you, which is exactly what they want.

Regarding the oil pressure warning, the manual states: "If the indicator comes on, stop and check." Not "continue to drive to the nearest dealer, even if they are only 3 blocks away."

I can understand why you're upset about the oil plug. I sure would be too. But you compounded the problem by continuing to drive a disabled vehicle with A WHOLE LOT OF WARNING LIGHTS ON. This is how my husband ended up replacing half the engine on his last car (which was way out of warranty)

You should have used the roadside assistance. And I bet if it came down to it and you were only 3 blocks away the dealer might have sent a tech out there to look at it. And there would have been NO dispute, it would have been 100% their fault.

I'm not trying to be mean, or kick you when you're down. It's a bad situation and I really feel for you. I'm just a realist and I'm trying to tell you what to expect. Others are saying you should threaten to sue, but I doubt it would stand up in court. All I can say is this will be very difficult for you to come out on top because of the choice you made. I wish you luck, but you very well may need it...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"99850)</div>

Talk to the General Manager first. Don't mention a lawyer unless you have one ready to go.
If you mention a lawyer at my dealership all talks come to a fast end. It becomes something like this: 'Ok have your lawyer call our lawyer' and all negotiation comes to a end.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil\";p=\"99929)</div>

The Toyota DEALERSHIP is liable. The dealership is NOT owned by Toyota. It is a franchised dealer owned by some corporation or some rich person with his name all over it.
You need to start with the general manager. If you get nowhere then call Toyota Corp to open a 'case file' so they know what is going on but start by dealing with the dealership that caused the problem.

If the dealership does a warranty repair on a car that they damaged and toyota finds out (see case file) The claim will be declined and the dealer will be on the hook for 6 7 or 8 grand for the repair and the GM knows this. Toyota makes a great product and would be all over a engine that needed to be replaced at 6000 miles. That raises lots of red flags!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KTPhil\";p=\"99929)</div>

I agree with this. If your car is showing no signs of problems at this point they would love a deal like this. You will get the new car and be off there back and unfortunately they will put it up as a certified or on there used car line and tell the next buyer that the person that traded it in did not like the color or it was to fast for them or something like that. (A car salesman would not tell a lie would he?)

But at least you would not have to worry about if and when you engine might give up .

 

The fact that the dealership offered you a 100k mile ext warranty, and wanted you to pay anything is insulting to you at best. By them offering the warranty, they know the possible ramifications of the problem down the road. I agree, take it in and have them buy it back. Don't mention lawyers, start at the top of the chain and try to get resolution. Get everything in writing. If nothing comes of it, then work your way up from District, to Regional, to National/Corporate. Places like Jiffy Lube are quick to offer to pay the cost of a new/rebuilt engine when this kind of stuff happens to them, and it happens often as I know of a gentlman personally this happened to. He brought his car back a day later, complained, they realized it was their fault, and three weeks later Jiffy Lube corporate was buying him a new engine. It works, but document it and work the right channels. Do not accept the warranty coverage, that's signing away your right to any future complaints about your car's performance, and you're accepting your current situation. You will more than likely have problems with this engine whether it be at 30/50/90/100k miles...

Sorry to hear about your situation, and hope you can get it taken care of.

Dave.

 

Condolences to Bluedog.

I believe one classic Prius "oiled out" on the road, the ICE did not stop, and did suffer fatal damage right then. So it may not be certain that your Prius stopped its ICE for the low oil pressure condition.

Must say that a new engine would make me feel better in your shoes, but uncertain how much I'd be willing to copay.

If you stay with the engine and it is not torn down for inspection, please consider getting some used oil analyses done. From (very limited) Prius data, it is already clear that extremely low levels of "wear metals" would be expected.

Good luck.

 

MY $0.02...

:mrgreen:

If the situation is as you wrote, you're probably fine. I've had a few bikes dump oil, and as long as the engine is turned off relatively quickly afterwards, you'll be o.k., as it does take some amount of time to actually purge all the oil, even though the pressure drops almost instantaneously. As long as you're sure the ICE didn't kick in during that period, you're o.k..

I DOUBT the dealership will do much more. If it runs fine now, they have no *real* reason/evidence to do anything more. They're not going to put you in a new Prius for that, nor are they going to replace your engine, much less pull it apart to see if anything is "wrong".

All the more reason to do oil changes yourself, or if you really can't, or don't want the "hassle", go to Jiffy Lube, as that's ALL they do. They are more attuned to simple oil changes. That's what they specialize in, that's what they do, that's what they focus on. To them, making sure the drain plug is in correctly and tightened is something they likely pay more attention to than some dealership mechanic with 1,000 different repairs going on at the same time.

 

Did you hear the THUNK of the oil plug hitting the underside of the car when it came out?

My 1992 Geo Metro experience the same plug loss, and all I really got from the dealer whose shop screwed up was the $20 I paid for the new plug and oil (lucked out as to which repair/scrap yard I was towed) and a in-writing statement they'd fix anything oil-related.

As mine was a former-rental sold used, I guess they figured it didn't deserve a lot of coverage...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid\";p=\"100084)</div>

I've never been to Jiffy Lube b/c of I've read some horror stories about them. Do a quick google for "Jiffy Lube horror stories" and you'll get a bunch of hits. My personal take is that Jiffy Lube would be a significant downgrade from Toyota service. I do my own oil changes (they are relatively easy to do) and take it into a dealer which I trust for major service/to fix problem.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ryogajyc\";p=\"100210)</div>

I've never been to Jiffy Lube b/c of I've read some horror stories about them. Do a quick google for "Jiffy Lube horror stories" and you'll get a bunch of hits. My personal take is that Jiffy Lube would be a significant downgrade from Toyota service. I do my own oil changes (they are relatively easy to do) and take it into a dealer which I trust for major service/to fix problem.[/b][/quote]

I'm going from personal experience over 15 years over numerous branches, on about 12 vehicles overall that adhere to 3/mo. 3k miles intervals. Never had a single problem.

Then again, they probably handle 100X as many oil changes as any dealership.

The only thing I'd fault them on, is getting people who aren't that knowledgeable about cars to pitch out for coolant changes, fuel injection cleanings, belt changes, when they really don't need them, PARTICULARY with women.

I used to do my own oil changes, but between the time doing it and dealing with the "old" oil, I'll just spend the $30 and have it done for me.

Then again, I go there for oil changes ONLY, and know exactly what I want. After 30 seconds they get that feeling that I'm not a customer they can swindle. I can't vouch for how good they are with such things as fuel injection cleaning and various other services, but for simple oil changes, they're the people I always go to.

 

Yes, you are right about the difference between the Toyota dealer and Corporate. I was clumsy in not being clearer; my point was that someone with Toyota in their name (and that is NOT you!) is liable. It's a major hassle and I would not want to be in that position. But if you wait, then you will have zero chance of convincing them teh reason you got only 80K miles on the motor was their mistake. It's now or never.

Pit one "Toyota" against the other: write both, have Corporate not want to explain why their ICE crapped out at low mileage, versus the dealer who doesn't want Corporate down their necks, either.

Give a deadline, and be prepared to back up your claim for action.

Bad news, and something the average person can do NOTHING to prevent. Who is gong to crawl unde rthe car when you pick it up to check the torque on the drain plug?

I think their (potential) whining that you should not have driven it is bogus. The problem was caused by their error, and you need only take ordinary care (and consider your own safety) when getting off the road to a safe location. I'd like to see them stand up in court and claim YOU should have done something different, when it was THEIR f-up that put you in that dilemma.