Near-Production Honda CR-Z Shown Off, Looks H-O-T

I hope Honda fixed their battery problem with manual/IMA setup. Honda pulled the manual offering on the HCH because of some battery replacement needed under warranty because people used the EV motor more to pull with the taller gears, instead of shifting like a normal manual.

 

I'm looking forward to a lightweight honda with a stiff chassis. The modular nature of the IMA system should make it possible (and maybe interesting) to modify the powertrain with more traditional tuning techniques for N/A engines.

You should ask Pinto Girl (who has apparently long left this forum, to some extent likely due to the extremely negative reactions she got when reporting on her TOM's exhaust modification).

 

Well, a manual puts driver ability into the equation, whereas the automatic doesn't. A good driver, plus the knowledge of your future intentions, and the lower weight still gives the edge to a stick shift, IMO.

 

I didn't believe it until reality proved me wrong, but Honda is capable of designing an IMA car with a pulley CVT that favors torque over fuel economy. The Insight II shows that. Given that the CR-Z is supposed to appeal to the 'sporty' drivers amongst us, I am skeptical that Honda will place fuel economy first in this upcoming car.

 

taste??? uhm.. yeah. okee.. coming from a cheese wedge, this isn't saying much. the Prius is a HEAVILY overrated (60mpg my A*S!!) HEAVILY overpriced, gimicked washing machine of a car. It's about frickin time Honda stick it to Toyota. Both Toyotas and Hondas are quality cars, hands down, if you disagree you're simply jealous.. Additionally, you and I both know that if it wasn't for honda's 1st gen insight your beloved prius would still look like a ford.

WELL done, Honda. :rockon:

ps what the hell is "increadable mileage"?

 

Provided the person behind the wheel of the said vehicle is an intelligent driver, manual will NEVER have slightly less MPG than an automatic. where did you get this from? Too bad the hyped "EV-only" mode is so important to the prius camp.. you're missing out on the joy of driving manual AND getting better mileage, for LESS money with less moving parts (with the cost of slightly dirtier emissions... there's always a trade off)... some of us could care less if our car goes into super-quiet-stealth mode, as long as we get better mileage... as of now toyota still (even with the 2010 prius) can't top the MPG rating of one particular 2 door hatchback by honda from...yes folks, 1999... and if honda's improvements on the IMA system of the 2nd gen insight are any indication (I got 61mpg with EASE on my first city/hwy test drive)... well Honda just might be outdoing themselves with this CR-Z. Yes, David Beale.. we'll let you know how much this car "sucks"... have fun with your prius.

 

Looks a nice car, from what I have read this is initially aimed at the European market. Take it from me they will struggle, a lot of new cars are sold to the company fleet market, for a start 2 doors are normally out. Also our diesels with sporty models will make it struggle. The Prius is great I have just got my second (2010) but since the launch I have not seen one, and I had no waiting to get it. It is diffficult in the UK for the for any eco car with a price premium especially if it is not aimed at the company car driver.

 

why should we take it from you? because you bought a 2010 prius and haven't seen any others on the road? I know a few more likely reasons for that, and many of them can be found in the complaints section on this forum.

ps RE your sig, you get 52.3mpg according to your car's tweaked computer. It's a feature, not a bug.. I challenge you to fact check your computer by doing a bit of simple math next few times you're at the pump. let me know how that works out.

 

More silver please.

 

More? Well.. I hope Honda remembers to include floor mat hooks like every other car they have the insight to include them in... which would be all of them

 

I like it. It shows that hybrids are gaining acceptance by a more diverse customer base. Apparently, auto manufacturers now believe that their customers want hybrids and are just waiting for the style to catch up to the technology. It's all good IMO. Greater fuel efficiency, less pollution and the change in perception (or stereotypes) that go along with those ideals are good things.

Private to wentzr: This is a forum for Prius enthusiasts, not Prius haters. Why don't you take a week off, then quit? Just a suggestion (one you've heard before, I bet).

 

I don't hate the toyota prius. It is a good step in the right direction, a direction all car companies should be taking.. I just get a kick out of pointing out reality to all those with their heads in the clouds.. as for the moral majority of the prius camp (like the mac camp) they can dish it out but they can't take it. Thank your own collective inflated smugness for attracting my attention enough to make some of you upchuck a bit of the kool-aide toyota's been feeding. Like I said, It's about time Honda put the boxing gloves on.

 

It was funny reading you back out of the provocative manner in which you opened your reply.

"a manual will beat the automatic given the same driver, same conditions". . you catch on quickly. good, i wont waste any more time with that.

to the person who wants me to quit commenting, Yes this is a prius forum.. save your complaints to the person who started this thread and to google for finding this thread within the first three results when searching for "honda cr-z forum".

with that... and if nobody else says something stupid, adios! it's been fun!

 

What is TOM ?

 

Where did that come from ?
A Type R sticker is probably as good as a TRD emblem.

 

Not sure what you are getting at, that average is accurate, calculated and actually out of date and it is probably a few mpg higher. Attached is a photo of a run to work, admittedly this was on a very good day, but normally I average 65-75 UK mpg but approaching 80mpg is not out of the question.

I have checked my actual vs displayed and yes it reads about 2mpg out but I am aware of that. In fact most other cars I have looked at range up to 10 mpg out, the Prius is pretty good. I regularly get over 625 miles from a tank, simple maths.

Steady work run 73mpg
Motorway fast 55mpg
Motorway slow 66mpg
Across town 70mpg

figures UK and Prius 2007
first 5 mins not shown is about 52mpg

P1080767.jpg

 

Wentzr,

You do not understand the underlying concept of the "transmission in Prius. This makes your comments foolish coming from a Honda fanatic.

Prius eCVT does not have the concept of shifting gears. It has one gear ratio and it shifts power sources as there are two (electric and mechanical). In simple term, high torque electric motor is used for "low gear" while the low torque Atkinson cycle engine is used for "high gear". Anything in between is a mixture of both and there are infinite combination as the computer monitor/change the combined torque value every 10 ms.

Prius eCVT is a manual-automatic transmission. The reason it is manual is because the driver can manually choose to operate on electricity (EV mode). The driver can also push the accelerator and activate the gas engine as well. The computer ultimately manages the mixing of two power sources which also makes it "automatic"; the driver only pushes the pedal.

For the traditional manual transmission, you manually shift gears. That's ok as long as you like to be part of the transmission hardware.

The reason Prius eCVT can get better MPG than a manual tranny is that ICE speed is not related to the car speed. At 65 MPG, Prius ICE can be spinning from 980 RPM to 5,000 RPM at the most efficient load. In the manual tranny, the RPM is constant with power output controlled by the air and fuel (throttle) not necessarily the most efficient load.

 

Sadly, not likely to be true.

Honda factored no meaningful architectural/technological improvements on the Gen II insight. As a matter of fact, the Gen 2 is a significant technical step backwards when compared to the HCH-II and the fielded FE performance potential shows it.

As for the CR-Z being a machine capable of taking IMA to even higher FE potential that remains to be seen... but even that is very unlikely since the emphasis is being placed on "fun-to-drive performance" rather than "environmental performance". If this is the path Honda will choose for the CR-Z then many of us will be disappointed if not appalled, to say the least.
FYI, the Gen II Civic Hybrid was the very last Honda Hybrid to be designed with "Environmental Performance" as its main criteria.



On the subject of CVT vs MT, since this is not as trivial as some like to make it, perhaps it helps to be a bit more specific:

- No point referring to an eCVT since Honda is not going to produce it anyway... so I'll stick to the current Honda CVTs and their MTs.

For the average person, a late model CVT (one that Honda will produce) will match and sometimes outperform the FE achieved by a similar vehicle with traditional MT. This is because the PCM controlling the CVT ratios ends up being "smarter" than the vast majority of drivers on our roads. On this note a CVT does win rather noticeably, I might add.

For a careful/expert driver the last point will not always hold true. This is because a MT transmission can not only empower the driver with element of preemtiveness but also enable a broader array of driving strategies that today's PCMs simply cannot match. That is in part why MT operated hybrids can still post very good FE whereas their CVT variants require a super-driver at the helm or else they'll struggle to achieve the same under similar circumstances.

Moral of this story?
Lest we forget, the most powerful and capable computer riding your car still sits between your ears.


Cheers;

MSantos