'07 - Rattle/knock, P3191, simply stumped

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by bodacious_humidifier, Dec 13, 2024.

  1. bodacious_humidifier

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2024
    3
    0
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    I
    2007, 270k miles (more, odometer was dead for a couple years), strict maintenance intervals (plugs, coils, fluids, etc). More on that to follow.

    A few days ago my wife drives to work and back home. She reports having no issues with the car. I go to use the car - rattle rattle rattle. Starts out sounding like either a light knock or noisy fuel injectors then starts rattling like it wants to fly out of the bay. It's too violent for me to deem it a knock so rattle it is.

    So after I throw a temper tantrum and verbally abuse the vehicle, I start pulling coil connectors, hoping to find an obvious misfire. I start messing with the throttle body and MAF. Nothing. Eventually, after starting it up several times, it throws P3191, red triangle, and shuts off. After that, it turns on, runs smooth for about 10 seconds, then it goes at it again, then dies.

    I also had P0102 (Mass or Volume Air Flow Circuit Low Input), P0113 (Intake Air Temperature Circuit Low Input), and P1116 (Coolant Temperature Sensor Circuit Stuck For Coolant Heat Storage System). However, these codes have been here for several months and the car has still been running beautifully outside of noisy injectors and just being old.

    Here's one of my hangups though: NO misfire codes. I have gotten them twice and it is ONLY when I pulled the connectors on the coils while running. But they have not nor have they ever shown up by themselves

    After some web surfing I start by pulling the throttle body and intake manifold. Clean them thoroughly, and I do mean thoroughly, inside of the manifold is a mirror. Only problem is the cylinder head is REMARKABLY caked with carbon. The valves are clear and shiny, but the surrounding area is pretty bad. I was not about to pull the head for this yet so I left it and put the cleaned parts back on.

    After this I replaced spark plugs (NGK) coils (I did use Oreilly's sadly, I've got Densos on order) and fuel injectors (Beck/Arnley). I don't usually fire the parts cannon, but we all make mistakes in the heat of passion, jimbo.

    Now, reportedly the wife had replaced her own spark plugs at some point while I was out of town for work. This is about a year ago. Car's running fine and she doesn't put many miles on it, so I think nothing of it. Dawg. These things were fingertight. FINGERTIGHT. Not only that, they were BURNT. CRISPY. TOAST. FRIED. SAUTEED.

    So not only do I think, at this point, that she never did them (even if she meant to), but I think either my father in law did them a while ago, or one, or both of them are not at all accurate about the reported maintenance schedule preceding the marriage two years ago. She very well could have been driving with fingertight spark plugs for three or four years, depending on who's telling the truth, idk.

    So yeah that one's on me, I shouldn't have taken anyone's word for it. Regardless, I changed them, changed injectors, changed the MAF. Before doing ANYTHING ELSE I pulled the oil pan.

    My next hangup: Absolutely no metal in the oil. No piston skirt, no shavings, no chips, no specks, flecks or glimmer. Just some fairly recent, clean dark oil.

    I put the oil pan back with a new gasket, 24 hr cure, refill with 3.7 quarts exactly (I measured), let sit for 20 min ish, start the car.

    Still bangin baby.

    BUT NOW FEATURING: P0301, CYLINDER 1 MISFIRE! *fanfare*

    I got P3190 and ignition coil primary circuit codes after I messed with those connectors again. But I reset everything, kept trying, and we're back to P3191 and a death rattle.

    ALSO FEATURING: A freeze frame with a 99.6% ST fuel trim under the conditions of the misfire code (turn on, run, stall.) Unsure if that's important. I suspected perhaps if the fuel pump is faulty or dead, the engine is not getting enough fuel so it's just like "GIVE ME ALL OF THE FUEL" but I'm not sure if the STFT is a "real" reading of fuel or a "requested" amount of fuel. Not smart enough for that one.

    Open to any tips or wisdom.

    My next course of action is to figure out how I'm going to do compression and fuel pressure tests.

    My suspicions:

    - Fuel pump. I'm aware it's part of the tank and this thing has some miles behind it. never been replaced.
    - Head gasket. No coolant loss or typical signs of gasket failure but I haven't ruled it out yet. Compression test will tell me yes or no.
    - I'm aware there are several interacting mechanical components between the hybrid and ICE engines - namely the two 'starter' motors and the spring dampener type thing. Only reason this is on my mind is because this almost sounds like something came loose and it making a racket - like a dual mass flywheel.
    - EGR; it is my understanding that 2nd gens do not have a serviceable/cleanable EGR so I don't even know what I'd do about it.

    My final suspicion, and probably the most likely: She's old, she's tired, and she's run her faithful course.
     
  2. bodacious_humidifier

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2024
    3
    0
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Contender for the head gasket issue, pending comp test:



    Cylinder 2 (oily) vs Cylinder 3 (1 and 4 are clean as well). Brand new plugs. Unsure if this is just oil in the spark plug chamber i.e. busted o-ring, or oil IN the cylinder
     
  3. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    10,825
    1,868
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    That looks like the o-rings in your spark plug wells are not good anymore or in that one cylinder You're leaking oil right into the hole where you put the spark plug wrench It's supposed to be clean in there that oil doesn't look very nice either so how is it turning milky like that there should be no water in the valve cover spark plug hole well The oil should come through as clean as it is in the engine in the valve cover go through that spark plug o-ring and sit in the well for you to sit your spark plug wrench in but that is milky and screwed up like it would normally be in an old engine with a blown head gasket or water getting into the oil however it's doing it how is water getting in your oil while it's sitting in the spark plug well of you trying to troubleshoot your engine so does your oil look like that milky crap right here on the spark plug threads on your dipstick and you can't see the metal dipstick you're looking at whipped up oil like coffee light oh no You got to yeah you might want to retire that or if it's in real good shape maybe fix it engines are cheap now You could rebuild it but then you're going to need timing chain and all of that business may not be a thing there's plenty of low mileage engines of the 1NZ around because people in America have lots of wrecks not related to engines. But that's generally looks like how your oil should look in the crank case pulling that spark plug out like that there shouldn't be water in the spark plug well that would whip up like that and look like coffee light so that should be coming straight from your oil pump and your engine still a picture of your dipstick pulled out with that same oil Don't change the oil and take a picture and that's not any good.
     
  4. bodacious_humidifier

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2024
    3
    0
    0
    Location:
    Arkansas, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Kinda what I was thinking, it's pretty milky. Oil in the pan looks good though, when I drained it it was normal and the new oil looks good too. So that may be just related to the spark plug well. But I'm unsure if that's related to the engine issue
     
  5. PriusCamper

    PriusCamper Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    11,509
    4,670
    0
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest, USA
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    The engine "starting and running for 10 seconds" is actually just the engine NOT starting as per error code: P3191

    The problem with hybrid cars is you can drain the hybrid battery down to the point of needing a recharge via a high voltage trickle charger.

    Also this is amazing, I wish I had a family that spent too much time working on the car to the point of having a hard time keeping track of work that was done.

    I think Tombukt2 is pointing you in the right direction. Pull the valve cover gasket with a plan to replace it as long as engine passes a compression test. If it doesn't pass the test, it sounds like your whole family could work together putting another used engine in. Gen2 is a very easy job as far as engine swaps go:

     
  6. Tombukt2

    Tombukt2 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2020
    10,825
    1,868
    0
    Location:
    Durham NC
    Vehicle:
    2009 Prius
    Model:
    Base
    I'm interested in how that oil in that one spark plug well pictured the spark plug is how that oil is so milky either you have no hood on the car or you raise the hood and spray the engine off with a pretty good garden hose on the daily or something really weird you live in a place where you're driving in the water like a boat almost? There is no way the oil and the spark plug well should look like coffee light but hey whatever it takes now fix those round seals and make no oil get in that spark plug well and we'll have no discussion pretty much but it is interesting why that oil there is milky looking like coffee with cream but yet the oil not shown on your dipstick when you pull it out is completely clear and you can see the shiny metal silver of the dipstick through the oil You wouldn't be able to see that with the oil looking like it does in the spark plug well that's all I'm saying