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10 days old Prius - lots of questions

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by bulek, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. bulek

    bulek Junior Member

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    Hello Prius lovers,

    That is my first post here but I have been reading all forums for quite a while. I bought Prius 2007 several days ago (of course I love it already). I guess I was very excited during first days because I did not notice some things which I can see now. Prius is not too popular in my country (just a few tens yearly) and therefore not too many experts here so let me ask you. I tried to convert all units to make it easier for you.

    1. I'm used to leave my mobile phone charger in lighter socket. Since Prius is a bit different I wonder if there is some battery drain when I have it plugged in (without my mobile phone connected)? I would assume when the car is off then no power is taken by charger... but how is it when a car is on?

    2. Yesterday I had a first very sunny weather in here and I noticed that my plastic "glass" of instrument cluster is actually broken by two parts. I don't know... is it really broken? I would assume that but it looks like it is broken exactly in the middle and the break line is very straight like done on purpose. Do you guys have this "glass" in one piece or two?

    3. When pressing brake pedal I can hear silent but high freq sound (almost like bat sound). It stops as soon as I stop regenerating energy. Do you observe something similar? Also related question... I can easily hear when the car is about to stop when pressing brake pedal. I mean this brakes that do not recover energy - they sound like kind of scrapping... I had it in my old car always after car wash. Can you hear it too?

    4. When I drive on gas engine on I try to go down with speed to the point when gas engine turns off and electric one takes over. It never happens automatically... I can drive slower and slower (without releasing completely accel pedal) even 6 MPH and gas engine is still on. The only way to have electric one to take over is releasing accel pedal completely, go to batt recharge mode briefly and then start accelerating slowly. Electric one in this case keeps working up to 40 MPH. Is it normal behavior?

    5. Now the longer one. Three days ago I took the car to auto car wash machine. I have impression that after this the car behaves differently and strange sometimes. It will be hard but let me try to explain. First of all it was not like this before. The temp outside varies between 40F and 60F here. Radio, A/C, fan turned off by default. When I start the car it turns gas engine almost imediatelly. If I don't drive the display usually shows 0.00 litres (per 100 km) but just after starting it shows "-.--". I can hear gas engine on but the display shows all engines off. If I try to move it jumps randomly to values from 20 to 70 litres (3 - 12 MPG). After some time it stabilizes - 5-10 minutes and everything works like it should - gas and electric are cooperating resulting 47 MPG in average. I know it all sounds strange but this is what I have every time when I start. Any hints? Could it be a water from car wash maker that made some mess inside?


    I know all of this looks a bit paranoid but it makes me worry. THank you for any hints.

    - Piotr
     
    #1 bulek, Apr 2, 2007
  2. RBW111

    RBW111 New Member

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    Keep reading through this forum. Everything you describe is normal during certian conditions. Don't worry about it, just drive it for a while and keep reading!!!!!
     
    #2 RBW111, Apr 2, 2007
  3. Prudence

    Prudence New Member

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    Mine is like that too, it is in two pieces. Probably for easier manufacture and assembly, that's just a guess on my part.
     
    #3 Prudence, Apr 2, 2007
  4. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    Welcome to PriusChat, Piotr. I think it all sounds normal, if I understand correctly.
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    The socket turns off with the car. It is on in Ready or IgOn modes. A mobile phone takes very little power and the phone will not drain the battery at all in Ready; other things cause more drain in IgOn.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    Yes, there is a joint in the middle. It is made that way.
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    You have good ears and are hearing the inverter turning AC into DC to store in the HV battery. When you get down to 7 mph (11 km/h) the friction brakes take over. Since the friction brakes are not used much, the disks get rusty, you are hearing scraping. This is not a problem and will go away with a bit of driving and braking.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    Read the threads about getting better milage and The Four Stages of Prius Enlightenment and all will be revealed.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    The Prius does behave strangely at times. This sounds to me like fairly normal start-up. Almost everyone gets low fuel efficiency with the instantaneous readout jumping around for the first five to ten minutes while the engine and catalytic converter warm up. It is possible that some water got into the engine compartment and into some wiring, but not too likely. If everything resolves after this initial odd spell, it is probably nothing to worry about.

    Congratulations on driving a Polish Prius!
     
    #4 Bill Merchant, Apr 2, 2007
  5. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 02:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    If the car is off, the power outlet is off. when it's on, it's like a normal 12V outlet.

    Yes, the instrument panel is in two pieces

    You have a very sharp ear. That's the electric motor whine. I can only hear it with the radio off. I use that to gauge whether I am regenerating.

    Yes, you have let go fo the accelerator completely to let the engine shut off then feather it. This is one thing that makes a difference between a normal driver and one looking to maximise efficiency. Most drivers would just keep the pedal and have the engine run when that particular stretch of road could've been done with the engine off with little or no loss in speed (say a slightly downhill road)

    -.-- isn't right lol. The engine immediately fires up only if I have the front defroster (defogger) running. All other times, it turns on after 15 secs (or thereabouts)
     
    #5 Tideland Prius, Apr 2, 2007
  6. bulek

    bulek Junior Member

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    Thank you for all responses... it is much more clear now at least for points 1 - 4.

    With point 5 however I think I will have a problem :unsure: . I made some additional tests today... 40F outside, all accesories turned off. I start the car and within 1 sec it turns on gas engine however it is not shown on the display. I start moving slowly back. Fuel usage shows sometimes "-.--" l/100km, then 60 l/100km (3.9 MPG), then 40 l/100km (5.9 MPG) and similar values. I had a short drive then with very low mileage. When trying to drive in stealth mode display shows the mode correctly but I can hear gas engine running. When going downhill display shows correctly regeneration mode (from wheels to the battery) but fuel usage (which normally would show 0.00 l/100km) shows 1-3 l/100km all the time. Yes... I can hear gas engine in the background. It just looks like gas engine is way too persistent... it was not working for sure this way for the first days.

    Ok... I will drive few more days and if nothing changes will go to my dealer. If you have any other idea feel free to put it here please.

    Cheers,
    Piotr
     
    #6 bulek, Apr 3, 2007
  7. tumbleweed

    tumbleweed Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 3 2007, 11:53 AM) [snapback]417148[/snapback]</div>
    Did you have The AC system turned on, that is in the heater or defroster modes? If so the engine will run so the heater can work correctly. Also the engine will run to keep its self and the catalytic converter warm. The display does not indicate rather the engine is running or not, it just tells you if it is providing energy.
     
    #7 tumbleweed, Apr 3, 2007
  8. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 3 2007, 01:53 PM) [snapback]417148[/snapback]</div>
    Hey Piotr (Peter, as we'd say), very good English!

    You're right about point 5, I don't think that's normal. The gas engine should turn on after 7 seconds no matter what. Fuel efficiency is low, particularly at low speeds, and can jump around a bit on startup, but I don't remember ever seeing "-.--". (But that could be because of 2006 U.S. model vs. 2007 European model). I'm not sure where the electronics are that control this behavior, but it would probably be worth finding it now rather than in a rainstorm someplace. Could just be a loose cap or something.

    Point 4 will take some practice and it's not 100% the same on every drive, depends on engine temperature, battery level and other factors. But if the engine is warm (after 5 minutes of driving in warm weather), you should be able to almost fully release the pedal and it will enter glide state (no arrows), and you can go for quite awhile with very little loss in speed. This only happens easily in speeds under 40 mph (65 kph). Coasting is what happens when your foot is completely off the accelerator, and it has a slight regen to simulate the engine braking effect on normal cars when coasting. You don't want to try to accelerate with battery-only very often, since the battery gets its charge from ICE, but with some loss of efficiency. Better to accelerate with ICE-only when you can.
     
    #8 nerfer, Apr 3, 2007
  9. Michgal007

    Michgal007 Senior Member

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    When the car is just turned on (say after 10 seconds), and you are not moving, and the engine is running (because you can hear it), mine doesn't show any arrows either. At least in the beginning. I just noticed this yesterday after reading your thread.
     
    #9 Michgal007, Apr 3, 2007
  10. Oxo

    Oxo New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulek @ Apr 2 2007, 04:53 PM) [snapback]416653[/snapback]</div>
    Is your car fitted with an EV switch? (As far as I know all Prius sold in Europe have one but not the US version of the Prius) It's a fairly large switch on the dash under the steering wheel.

    If so you could try putting this on when you start the car and you will find the ICE (petrol engine) will not come on until you reach about 35KPH or until you accelerate or go up a hill. However the EV switch will not work if your 200V battery is low or if the weather is cold and the car needs to warm up.

    In general it's best not to look at the screen very much in your first month and not to worry if the car is running correctly. If it feels OK to drive it probably is OK - just let its computers decide which motors are needed, electric or ICE.
     
    #10 Oxo, Apr 3, 2007
  11. Bill Merchant

    Bill Merchant absit invidia

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    As I said before, regarding question five, I do not think anything too unusual is going on, it is just not behaving in a manner you understand. At 4°C, your ICE will run to warm the coolant for cabin heat and operating efficiency, and to warm the catalytic converter. The Prius tries to minimize emissions, and a warm engine produces less. That's why, when it is cold, you should not try to drive in EV mode initially. The internal combustion engine must be warm to go into true hybrid mode. Get it warm by driving briskly at first.

    In Canada, Prius come equiped with a block engine heater. This is an electric heater that slides into a milled pocket on the engine block and runs off the mains to electrically warm the engine. You can probably find one there or in other northern European countries. Next winter, it will markedly improve your fuel efficiency at fairly low cost. Your cabin will be warmer faster and your initial driving experience will be improved.

    Another option is to block the air inlets on the front of your car, sesrch for blocking grill.

    Here's another reference: The Five Stages of Prius Hybrid Operation
     
    #11 Bill Merchant, Apr 3, 2007
  12. bulek

    bulek Junior Member

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    Bill,

    Thank you once again and all the other responding too. Yes, I am fully aware of "five stages" and a car operation in low temperatures. What I am still not sure are MDF indication in these first minutes after starting the car. Sorry for being stubborn ;) and let me ask you for the last time. I would like just to confirm that you have similar readings on screen after cold start (still.. by cold I don't mean temperatures below 32F). This time to be more precise I attached some pictures.

    Let's start a car... after 2-3 sec gas engine turns on and I have two possible screens there. While usually I have "0 l/100km" here I have this strange "-.--":
    [attachmentid=7407][attachmentid=7408]

    At the same time on consumption screen I can see "99.9 l/100km" (pic taken another day with a bit higher temp):
    [attachmentid=7414]

    Let's start very slowly. MDF shows electric only operation while I can hear gas engine running. Of course fuel usage is pretty interesting in this mode:
    [attachmentid=7410]

    Let's accelerate slowly (to speed around 15MPH). Gas engine mode pops up on the screen with another interesting fuel usage:
    [attachmentid=7411]

    At the end a screen with regeneration mode driving downhill (gas pedal not touched and still hearing gas engine in the background):
    [attachmentid=7413]


    Is it like this in your case? Again.. I mean just a 5 - 10 first minutes from cold start. On longer distances I get average milleage for Prius.

    Cheers,
    Piotr
     

    Attached Files:

    #12 bulek, Apr 10, 2007
  13. micheal

    micheal I feel pretty, oh so pretty.

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    To add to what Bill said, I have noticed similar behavior in our 2004 Prius. The gas readings the first 5-10 minutes fluctuates wildly from moment to moment, but averages out to be on the lower end. The display may say 4 or 5 mpg if I am driving slowly right after startup and or show regen when coasting down a long slope with no foot on the gas even though I can hear the engine running. The gas engine also rarely shuts down the first 5 minutes unless I come to a complete stop and wait a few seconds and can show mpg as low as 5-10 mpg. After the first 5 the gas engine may go off more quickly the next 5 minutes, but it still does not turn off as quickly if fully warmed up.

    When the engine first starts the screen may also show me 0.0 mpg even though the energy screen shows the engine running (I don't pay too much attention when it first starts, but I pretty sure I have seen the energy screen show 0.0 mpg for several seconds after startup). If longer trips produce more typical displays, then I doubt anything is wrong.
     
    #13 micheal, Apr 10, 2007
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