1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

10% of USA Electrical Energy

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by bwilson4web, Jun 19, 2017.

  1. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Source: Wind and solar in March accounted for 10% of U.S. electricity generation for first time - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    For the first time, monthly electricity generation from wind and solar (including utility-scale plants and small-scale systems) exceeded 10% of total electricity generation in the United States, based on March data in EIA’s Electric Power Monthly. Electricity generation from both of these energy sources has grown with increases in wind and solar generating capacity. On an annual basis, wind and solar made up 7% of total U.S. electric generation in 2016.

    Electricity generation from wind and solar follows seasonal patterns that reflect the seasonal availability of wind and sunshine. Within the United States, wind patterns vary based on geography. For example, wind-powered generating units in Texas, Oklahoma, and nearby states often have their highest output in spring months, while wind-powered generators in California are more likely to have their highest output in summer months.
    . . .

    [​IMG]

    Bob Wilson
     
    iplug, Zythryn, john1701a and 2 others like this.
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
  3. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    This link mentions rare earth elements in connection with wind turbines. So I have a question - do not all electrical generation pathways with a 'spin' in the middle require magnets?
     
  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Most have an 'exciter' coil/windings:

    An electric generator or electric motor consists of a rotor spinning in a magnetic field. The magnetic field may be produced by permanent magnetsor by field coils. In the case of a machine with field coils, a current must flow in the coils to generate the field, otherwise no power is transferred to or from the rotor. The process of generating a magnetic field by means of an electric current is called excitation.

    Source: Excitation (magnetic) - Wikipedia

    These provide a way to help managed the output voltage without having to do some complex, mechanical mechanism.

    Bob Wilson
     
  5. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    OK, say that this is my flavor of the month. Electricity produced by axial rotation (of something) needs a strong magnet. Or, resembling car alternators, produces a buck with a contrary-wound coil.

    In most large electrical generators, how is this done? How do Maxwell's equations (elephant in room) dribble down through engineering, banking, and finally politics to generate electricity?

    It could be a nice Smithsonian or Scientific American article to to present all this at general public level, Thinking that we make electricity in two ways - photo voltaic junctions, or water (thermal expansion or falling down) makes something spin.

    Evidence that such things are not already known comes from 'whoa, weird magnets and digging' @3.
     
  6. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Bars@1 suggest that photovoltaic junction electricity is ignorably small in US. Rest of world???

    How much can this source contribute to bottom-E countries, how might that happen and who pays for it?
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    It probably happens incrementally:
    1. cell phone charger - communications
    2. LED lighting indoors and night
    3. fans - dealing with the heat
    4. refrigeration - preserving food supplies
    5. bicycle/moped assisted
    Bob Wilson
     
  8. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    7,673
    6,493
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    My latest 'firefly.'

    While on my latest life-insurance-inspired health kick, I've rediscovered the joys of cycling.......and my loathing for most self-absorbed cyclists.
    It seems to be tough to get a decent bicycle for less than about $500, and most of my lycra-clad cycling friends seem to think that a bicycle isn't worth pedaling unless it's made out of weird space-age, F-35 inspired materials......with all of the fragility and costs associated with that programme.

    So.......
    Before the 'Zon pissed me off with a bait-and-switch over a bike, I'd pretty much settled in on two:



    They're Hybrid bikes.....
    What could be better - right?

    Well......
    This!!!
    [​IMG] :)

    I'm tinkering with a 4-stroke friction drive rather than the more popular 2-cycle chain designs because of my preference for disc brakes, and my dislike for two-strokers.
    I'm also thinking of using a "wal-mart" donor bike because, as is the case with most cyclist's egos, their carbon fiber or aluminum framed bikes are somewhat fragile.......
    I've seen reports where people claim 150mpg efficiencies - but the real-world MPG numbers are probably in the low 100's.
    Another advantage of the friction design is that the bike can be operated as..........a bike, with no parasitic drag, and the motor can be unmounted in seconds.

    In most free states....even in SoCal, bikes with <50cc "motorized assist" require no registration, nor insurance but I think you have to have a certain number of candles on your birthday cake and.......because they're Californians......a helmet.

    'Lectric bikes are coming along.....but as is the case with 'Lectric cars, more early adopters are required to work out the bugs, and bring down the cost.
    Motorized bikes are getting to be something of a 'thing' in many places.....and there are options available for Darwin aspirants and other scofflaws:
    [​IMG]
     
    #8 ETC(SS), Jun 23, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2017
  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,132
    15,392
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    The one friction drive I'd seen was also wearing off the tire tread pretty quickly. That is why I am impressed with the motor-in-hub approach. Whether driven by battery or engine-turning-generator, mox nix.

    Bob Wilson
     
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    7,673
    6,493
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    I saw that as well.....but there's an outfit that makes friction components that seem to do a little bit better with tire wear.
    I'll let you know if I get 'off paper.'
    I might even tinker with one of the chain drive units but their reliability record is Vee-Dubbayaish.

    Motor-in-hub units are very impressive indeed, but if I'm going to spend that much money, I'd just as soon buy a proper small motorcycle and pay for tag and insurance.

    I'm thinking in the neighborhood of $350 for bike,motor, drive-line parts, and first tank of gas.

    If the proof-of-concept is sound, then I'll motorize a more expensive hybrid bicycle (would it then he a Hybrid-hybrid?) and use the resulting abandoned WalMart bike for one of the more dubious chain-drive motor systems.
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,728
    11,325
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Mr. Honda started his business with engines for bicycles after WWII. With gas scarcity, he focused on efficiency from the beginning.
     
  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2009
    17,113
    10,043
    90
    Location:
    Western Washington
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    All the big legacy hydro facilities that I toured (in my college days) here in the Pacific Northwest had electric coils in the rotor for field excitation. The machines retained enough residual magnetism to allow self-starting of the exciter if they were not shut down for too long. But if hibernated for a long period, then they could not be self started, so required external power to the exciter assembly during startup. But I believe that was the standard procedure anyway.
     
  13. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2006
    4,519
    390
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Three
    The percentage of wind and solar in total energy consumption worldwide is 0.6%.
    Its not going to save the world. Its a fool's endeavor to pursue 100% dependency on wind and solar.
    Intermittent energy sucks.It will never replace fossil fuels .Germany pays 3 times as much for power than the USA.No wonder they have to lie to sell cars.
    Put the money subsidizing wind and solar into developing thorium nukes and fusion reactors.
     
    #13 mojo, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,728
    11,325
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Fusion is a long way off, throwing money at it won't speed it up, and money is going into thorium.
    Nuclear is a tough sell in most places, and out right banned in a few.
     
  15. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    3,837
    1,828
    1
    Location:
    Trumbull, CT
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    That's how small home generators work as well. The residual magnetism allows the production of a low voltage which is rectified to put a DC current through the field coils which generates a higher voltage and the generator "Bootstraps" to full operation. There is a procedure to reestablish a residual magnetic field if it is lost.

    JeffD
     
    #15 jdenenberg, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  16. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    3,837
    1,828
    1
    Location:
    Trumbull, CT
    Vehicle:
    2020 Prius
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    When I was a child (in the 50's), Fusion was predicted to be 20 years away. If you ask "experts" now they will say it is 20 years off.

    A prediction of 20 years off is the equivalent of NEVER as is is likely that the "expert" will not be around in twenty years.

    JeffD

    ps: Practical hydrogen cars will be available in about 20 years.
     
  17. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    wind and solar in total energy consumption worldwide@13. Correct value in 2016 was 6.3%

    Forgivable to get this wrong, but not difficult to get it right.