Featured $100,000 income and $40,000 sales-price limit on EV tax credit

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Gokhan, Aug 12, 2021.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yeah, for now before the law change, the only viable new BEV purchase option I had considered was the base Nissan Leaf. At that time, Nissan was offering a $6500 rebate. With a $7500 tax credit under current law, the final price came to a low $20K which has been my upper limit for a car purchase new or used. Unfortunately, I did not pull the trigger in time mainly because no dealer near me had base Leaf. I had to settle for the third PP purchase for this year until I can find a truly affordable BEV option in near future.
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota's immediate butt hurt is likely the fact that this would cut the Rav4 Prime's current incentive by $3500.

    Expanding the charger network with incentives to install them at apartments, HOA's, and other places where overnight charging is limited would be more helpful long term.

    The proposal is to make the tax credit refundable, so everyone can get the full amount. Point of sale would be better, but then the means checking of income becomes more difficult.

    What does the income limits mean for leasing?
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Partial Roth conversions, if available, are not foolish.
     
  4. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Depends on how it gets managed and invested after exiting the tax haven unless it re-enters at some point

    I personally view moving money in and out of said fund something that should rarely occur due to the laws of unforeseen circumstances
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    My Roth-converted accounts are managed exactly the same as the non-Roth retirement accounts sitting next to them. They don't even change what they are invested in, the securities are simply transferred in-kind from one account to the other. If I want to change allocation, I'll do that as a separate step. Though people holding their accounts at separate financial houses may not have this in-kind transfer as an option for some or all of the converted assets.
    As for 'tax havens', Roth conversions have been irreversible since January 1, 2018. Don't mistakenly convert a too-large chunk or even whole account at once, it can make for a nasty tax bill.
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    My account is locked in a zero input company related fund so that would be impossible, I would need to setup my own fresh account elsewhere
     
  7. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Bleh tax credit is not active for this year

    starts Jan 1 per modified timeline C0B90781-620C-4B62-834F-E634416D2FFE.jpeg
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    One analysis claims a 7 kWh battery, PHEV could get $9,000 credit for about $700 of batteries. I don't know if he is accurate but I do believe there should be a minimum of 72 miles EV range in any BEV or PHEV.

    A minimum EV range does not dictate the battery size or vehicle efficiency as long as the EV range is EPA verified. If they want a smaller battery, make the vehicle more efficient. For safety, manufactures will be encouraged to round up to 75 mi pure EV range.

    There should be an operator control that allows enabling the ICE or non-EV propulsion system. The vehicle startup default should be BEV mode; then allow low SOC to enable ICE, or; operator enable. The ICE will warm-up in the most efficient mode(s) and operate at peak efficiency.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  9. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    It would be a hypothetical union built 7kw PHEV , nothing currently on the market could claim that loophole yet.

    My own perverse interest would be to have more PHEV offerings especially in the non-existent small truck category (like a vW rabbit pickup)

    I agree that any tax credit or tax penalty (like registration taxes) should reflect the efficiency/utility of the vehicle , today we do the opposite which reinforces bad decisions.
    Realistically inefficient AWD “lifestyle” vehicles and high HP vehicles should pay more tax than the more efficient 2wd utilitarian counterparts. Just as taxes on a small MT car should be less than a AWD monster truck or even CUV. World in this hemisphere doesn’t work that way though.

    The Clean Energy for America Act and Its Potential Impact on Tesla

    it’s unfortunate the retroactive to may 1 2021 is out of the bill, I would buy a brand new $24,000 Bolt now that my backup vehicle is having an unexpected failure if I could even claim part of the credit.
    Sucks that about $800 of the credit is eaten up by just the title/registration fee even before paying sales tax. Nothing like an extra $650 gas tax fee before you even drive

    I also think the income limit should be much lower (like $100000) and the vehicle price limit lower regardless of truck/car (like $50,000 on either)

    Doing so would reduce the inflationary effect of the credit since it would limit the target audience
     
    #49 Rmay635703, Sep 15, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    U.S. Democrats propose dramatic expansion of EV tax credits that favors Big Three | Reuters

    Kind of a butt-rape for Tesla, and ferign makes....and a big wet sloppy kiss for labor unions.

    ....."The House Ways and Means Committee will vote on Tuesday on the proposal which is a part of a broad tax measure in a planned $3.5 trillion spending bill."

    I had trouble parsing out all of the trillion dollar spending plans until I found out that this is attached to the 3.5 trillion dollar plan that's facing some non-trivial headwinds in Congress (from D's in not-so-safe seats) and in the Senate (Senima/Manchin) so......we'll see what the sausage looks like when they stuff it into the tube....if it happens.

    Until then:
    Click bait
     
  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    So, what will be the Prius Prime tax credit after this bill goes in effect?
     
    #51 Gokhan, Sep 15, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2021
  12. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Just wait till a final conference bill is signed. This could get caught up in the whole debt ceiling story and become a bargaining chip.
     
  13. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    This bill is yet to be passed.

    If it does without changes, it appears the current formula for determining the credit amount remains in effect for 2022. The credit will be refundable, but will be reduced if the filer exceeds the AGI threshold.

    In 2023, the new formula goes into effect. The credit for the Prius and Rav4 Prime drops to $4000 for having a battery exceeding 7kWh. The Rav4 might get another $500 if the battery cells are made in the US.

    Unless the battery capacity increases, there is no credit for the Prius Prime in 2024 as the kWh limit increases to 10kWh.
     
  14. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    +1
     
  15. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    It’s a staged effectivity at first no effect later…
    RAV4 Prime Not much over $4000
    Prius nunca
     
  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I actually do support the incentives to the unionized car companies because I know from personal experience what the employer do to its employees if they are not allowed to unionize.

    Meanwhile, I am glad that the Prius Prime is still qualified for the full $4,502.00 tax credit plus the sales-tax deduction, which is another $800 or so in tax credits depending on your tax bracket, this year. In California we also have a $900.11 clean-fuel reward point-of-sale rebate. I see that they got rid of the lousy prorated CVRP rebate—thanks goodness for that as it required paying the remaining amount back if you traded in the car in less than 30 months. So, we are looking at around $6,200 or more for government incentives for the Prius Prime, in addition to the seasonal factory rebates, which could be substantial.
     
    #56 Gokhan, Sep 16, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    For California. Most other states aren't as generous with car incentives. Which is why Toyota needed to pony up large incentives themselves to sell the Prius Prime in the Northeast.

    Incentives for the Prius Prime isn't what has Toyota fighting this proposal. The car will end up losing credits in a similar time frame with Toyota approaching their 200k limit as with this proposal. They are worried about the Rav4 Prime. The SUV will be hit, but it won't be as big of a one when its effective price is increased $3500 against the Escape PHEV getting a $500 to $1000 decrease, and the Model Y a $8000 one.
     
  18. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Wouldn't it be more "fair" to limit the incentives to companies where the employees are free to unionize regardless of whether they choose to do so or not? Limiting it to companies whose employees vote a certain way seems like election interference or bribery. It doesn't seem right for the government to tell employees, "You vote the way we want you to or we'll penalize your products."
     
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  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Its politics.

    When unionized NUMMI shut down it had 4700 employees. It now has over 20,000 non-union employees. Freemont production pre nummi was awful. There is no way anyone of the employees would be in auto manufacturing still in california if it was still union.

    561: NUMMI (2015) - This American Life
    Mom was a member of the teachers union and they were required to join. The union got her better salary and somehow her health insurance still insured me through graduate school. She hated that the union fought to keep bad teachers in the schools. That made it worse for the good ones and the kids.
     
  20. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Trivia question....are labor unions allowed to make political contributions?
    "Follow the money...."

    CWA victim for over 20 years......
     
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