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12V Battery Charging

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Erik Aalto, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. Erik Aalto

    Erik Aalto Junior Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I replaced my original Denso 12V battery on my 2008 Prius (09/07 build, 11/07 purchase) in October of 2012. The original battery was reading around 12.0V in maintenance mode, and users here had suggested that I go ahead and replace it. I replaced it with an Optima Yellow Top, and it was suggested that I give the Yellow Top a full charge before installing it, because of them being sent out with significant discharge. (I never did this) After ~ 4 months of driving, I did another maintenance mode test on the Optima, and it is reading around 12.0V unloaded in maintenance mode. I recently purchased a Schumacher SC-600A battery charger, and wanted to know if it was safe to charge the 12V battery through the front terminal, at 2 amps. If absolutely necessary, I can pull out the Optima, but my preference is to not. Any help is appreciated, thanks!!
     
  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, you can charge the Optima at up to a 10A rate. If you wish to use that higher rate (which means a higher charging voltage as well) it might be a good idea to first disconnect the battery negative cable where it attaches to the body, and hook up the charger directly to the battery. That will isolate the Prius electronics from the charger voltage.
     
  3. Erik Aalto

    Erik Aalto Junior Member

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    I see, well the charger I bought is only 2/4/6 amp, and I guess I'd prefer to err on the side of caution, and charge at 2a with the convenience of the hood access. I appreciate the response! This Prius is creeping up toward 136K miles, would you still recommend doing ATF drain and fill? That's the only major service I haven't done since the last time I asked about recommended maintenance. About to put new tires on the 2011 (41K miles), and was looking at the Defender XT from Costco. Any experience with those? I know I could go and make a new post or search for other created threads, but I have you in this thread and you have been more than helpful in the past, I figured it can't hurt to ask :).
     
  4. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    I was about to ask you about your 600 Amp charger. Seemed unwise. :)
     
  5. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Since your charger has a 4A position, you can use that setting via the hood access. The 2A rate will be painfully slow.

    Yes, a transaxle ATF drain/fill would be a good idea.
     
  6. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    I would. As a dealer service, expect about $100. As a DIY you need 4 quarts of Toyota ATF WS and two washers, about $40.

    They are very good tires.
    Michelin Defender XT - 185/65R15 88T - Sam's Club
     
  7. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    On my Yellowtop In 2 amp mode using the front jump points it takes about 5 mins for the meter on the front of the charger to show 0 current draw. Full battery. Should be pretty quick. Its a maintenance charge on a new battery. If it takes a long time that means your not driving the car enough to put a good charge on it.
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    OP measured 12.0V which means the AGM battery is basically discharged. I would say it will take the battery closer to 20 hours in 2A charging mode, vs. 5 minutes.
     
  9. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Op was asking about 2 amp charge and I offered my perspective of a healthy Yellowtop in 2 amp mode.
    And my last sentence addressed his current battery level.
     
  10. Erik Aalto

    Erik Aalto Junior Member

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    Shouldn't be a mileage issue, I drive the car about 65 miles a day 5x a week...I let the charger do it's business, came back to the "green" charged light, ran the test, and it was reading 12.5,12.4 unloaded, and 12.2,12.1 loaded. Bounced between 14.0/13.9 when I did brake/power. Seem normal?
     
  11. Jon Hagen

    Jon Hagen Active Member

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    Be sure your charger is designed for use on an AGM battery like the original or Optima battery. An AGM battery has very little excess electrolyte, and it takes a "smart" charger to shut down when fully charges as not to evaporate electrolyte which wrecks the battery.

    I don't drive my gen 3 Prius much in winter, with the deep snow and road salt. It often sets for weeks or even a month or two. I installed a BatteryMINDer brand charger (1.3) amp, desulfator, maintainer , connected with a permanent plug in pigtail right at the battery. The BatteryMINDer is rated as good for an AGM battery, many cheap units are not. If the Prius is not going to be used for a week or more, it gets plugged in.
     
  12. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    What is the "green charge light" referring to? You mean the Hybrid battery charge indicator?

    And not normal your low on load. Should be at least 12.4 on a healthy yellowtop under load.
    12.8 unloaded.
     
  13. Erik Aalto

    Erik Aalto Junior Member

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    Sorry, I didn't really specify. The battery charger that I bought has a status indicator with a small scale, 0/25/50/75/charged (green light). Once the battery is fully charged, the charger automatically switches to float mode.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    In total, I think I had the battery charging for all of 3 or 4 hours, but I guess it's hard to say whether or not that's normal because this battery has been charged at least somewhat over the course of 4 months of driving since being installed. It has been on a handful of trips in the 125 mile each way category, and then two 40 minute, 33 mile commutes, 5 times a week. Approaching 136K miles total on the car, probably averaged about 27.5k miles per year for the first 4 years of ownership, and has since tapered off. I know that when we moved to NC in 2010, the car had around 65,000 miles, and we doubled that in about 2 years. Our 2011, that we bought in November of 2011 with 3 miles on it, already has 41,000 miles. I never had any indication of a failing 12V battery for 5 years on the old battery, I really just replaced it as preventative maintenance. Another member had mentioned that with my driving habits, he felt that my old battery could have survived another year or so, but I didn't want to risk it. That battery was reading 11.8 under load.

    If I can squeeze 5 years out of this Optima, then in my opinion the purchase will have been worth it, even if it never reaches 12.8. My driving habits will probably prevent it from ever reaching a deep discharge, and I am careful to avoid battery draining situations - I almost always lock it in the garage to let the car remind me if I left anything on.

    I do carry a small portable jump starter in the trunk for the worst case scenario in which my 12V battery dies, it should be more than enough power to run whatever pumps/relays are necessary to get the car into ready mode. The jump starter was absolutely useless for trying to jump a Range Rover, and I didn't even bother trying to jump from the Prius.

    Clore CS1000 CarStart Ultra-Portable 900 Peak Amp Jump Starter with 12-Volt Power and LED Flashlight : Amazon.com : Automotive
     
  14. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Roger that green light.

    Btw the pos clamp is attached to the wrong place. You don't use the bolt head in the fuse box. That bolt is holding the attachment tab you should use. Its the little vertical aluminum tab just above the bolt in the picture.
     
  15. Erik Aalto

    Erik Aalto Junior Member

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    Ah, I see that, and it makes perfect sense, because I was asking myself how larger clamps would ever be able to clamp to that bolt head, the clamps on the battery charger are tiny. Thanks for the heads up!
     
  16. scott.in.colorado

    scott.in.colorado Junior Member

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    I hope Paul from boulder hybrid chimes in here. I visited his shop last week and saw many Optima Yellow tops on the floor, that had been removed from Prius's. I ask him about this and he said these are not working well in Prius's.. I did not get into why but I have read about these as an option, like all of you. Paul told me the Toyota battery was better in the Prius. Paul's business is battery modification / changing the dynamics of the Prius, so he may be able to shed more light on the Yellow tops.
     
  17. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Perhaps because the Prius 12V bus voltage of ~13.8VDC is too low?
     
  18. scott.in.colorado

    scott.in.colorado Junior Member

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    I don't think so, as most 12V batteries will charge off 13.8V - but whatever the reason, people might want to know about this and do more research.. I know i'd be pissed if I apent $140+ on an Optima Battery and found out it's not being charged properly or is not working well in the application.
     
  19. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    My 2009 Gen 2 was at 13.7 or 13.8. My 2012 v Three maintains a bus voltage of 14.4 or 14.5.