2001 Battery DEAD, can a prius still run?

what lights come on the MFD, do u see a MAIN with +- above it battery symbol?

you should check salvage yards they usually got the hv battery pretty cheap like 300-400

 

The Prius will not start or run without the traction battery.

 

It will run for a while, till the degradation prevents the system from going into ready. No idea how long that is.

 

hey jamer, seems like your in fremont right? (me too actually ;p) so if you bought your prius in CA, then dont you have the 10 year/150,000 mile warranty on your battery? Someone correct me if I am wrong.

 

Yes, you do. Keep that paperwork where the dealer implicated the battery, and make sure your mileage is on it. You get a replacment (not necessarily brand new) battery under the CA AT-PZEV warranty.

 

144,700 miles and fro 2001 what whent wrong?
is it a second hand car?
of dit you leave it standing for long time's?
run out of gas one's?

 

Hi jamerz52,

Welp, your in the age old situation of people with older cars. Speaking from one who has been there. The issue is how can an economic repair be accomplished. Economic defined as a repair cheaper than about twice the value of the car, that will yield several years of functionality. Or, say less $.20 per mile for the next several usable years (if it can be fixed). Because a new Prius will cost about $.25 per mile over its lifetime, including gas and insurance. Yes, the repair is more expensive, but the up-front outlay will be at least $18000 less.

In the traditional car that means going out to a junk yard and getting the transmission or engine off a wreck, and having it put in. In the Prius, if the oil has been changed regularily, that engine probably has anohter 100 K in it. And the transmission is 50/50 for another 100 K. If the transmission fluid has been regularily changed, maybe that is a good bet.

So, we come to the traction battery. Buying one from the dealer is a sure thing. But that is $4500 installed as you report. For the lurker's out there, the first generation Prius battery is allot more expensive than the present generation, as its a larger battery , and there volume of production was less. From that battery you can expect 100K, or $.045 (edit fixed math error) per mile. So, there is good overhead for any other repairs that might also be needed.

Some people on Prius Chat here have harvested cells from similar aged batteries that are still in good condition. If you have industrial equipment, or electrical engineering background, that could be a good option, and you may be able to knock that $4500 down to $1000 with sweat equity. But there is no guaranty, and there is some amount of luck of finding a battery on Ebay, or whereever to haverst the cells from.

What apparently happens is that at the battery ages, the weakest cell goes first. If one can replace those weakest cells (typically 1 to 3 cells) , then one can keep the rest of the pack going. But, you may need to do the whole thing over in another 30 K, and again 30 K after that as the other weaker cells start to let go.

Also, if you find a pack from a wrecked car, with low mileage (unlikely in a Gen 1 now), that may be an option too.

 

Two quick questions:

• How quickly must it be returned to service?
• Do you feel comfortable with doing your own work?

In life we often must pick two between: (1) good, (2) fast, and (3) cheap.

The traction battery weights about 80 pounds:

​

This one came from a salvage and includes all of the electronics. I plan to refurbish it and add some external power plugs for future experiments. Currently my 2003 Prius has 99,000 miles and once it reaches 100,000 miles, my understanding is all warranties will have expired and I'll start my next series.

I also bought a worn out battery pack without the electronics to support experiments with the battery modules. For example, here I'm measuring the amp-hour capacity of a battery module:

​

In December I sold a battery module to someone in Florida who used it to replace the failed module in his NHW11 Prius. He had already identified the failed module. Your Toyota shop should have the diagnostic showing the failed module pairs. This same approach, module replacement, has also been used in Germany late last year.

It takes about a day to replace failed modules and I have a number of relatively high Ahr, serviceable modules if you want to do it yourself. Replacing a failed module requires removing the traction battery pack, 80 pounds; opening the cover; removing a lot of small bolts to reach the failed module(s); discharging the replacement battery module(s) to the same voltages as the adjacent modules; reassembly; and testing. It is a weekend job and you really need a good work area, volt-ohm meter, and electric drill and nut driver set. But there is a hazard.

Replacing a battery module also means dealing with potential voltages of 137 VDC in each of the two banks. This voltage can kill you stone dead very quickly or give a really severe electrical burn so proper safety measures must be followed. The hazards include a battery driven short will generate an electric arc that can not be turned off. You really need to understand these hazards if you or a mechanic friend are going to take this route. I don't want to scare anyone but caution and thinking ahead is mandatory.

I'm also looking at how to refurbish failed cells and this is the voltage profile of one from the failed pack I picked up in January:

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The chart shows one failed cell that on charging looks to be nearly open and on discharge becomes a dead short.

A failed module will only get worse and worse as the following photo shows three bubbles from out-gassing of the failed cell:

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A failed battery module never gets any better (to the best of my knowledge) but continues to fail and put a load on the rest of the cells.

One of my current investigations includes a modification to the Toyota patent on battery refurbishment:

​

So you have options but the question is, do you have the time?

If you decide to do it yourself, there will be delays getting either a salvage traction battery pack (start with Ebay) or modules (must be shipped ground.) Then there is the work of swapping the traction battery or replacing the module. If you live near some of the Prius Technical Stuff folks, you might be able to get a volunteer with the tools, manuals and expertise to help. Use Ebay to get the maintenance manuals, especially Volume 2 from any of the 2001-03 models. Volume 1 covers the diagnostic procedures and codes.

I agree with the analysis that a $4,000 battery replacement can be a good deal. You will then have a traction battery that should easily last as long as this one. With attention to detail and avoiding battery stress driving, you can probably more than double that life. But then a new model Prius is also a very nice vehicle and their battery modules have been significantly improved:

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The lower module is from an NHW20 salvage and is "like new."

So think about your options and capabilities and let us know what happens.

GOOD LUCK!
Bob Wilson

ps. Living in Alabama, I forget that CA and the states that signed up for the CA standards have a longer warranty. By all means, see if you can get it fixed under warranty. The rest of us have to deal with a more limited warranty.

 

Re: Fremont, CA. One (or a few) shops in Sacramento have offered a large number of salvage rebuilt Prius on ebay. So somebody there is working with a lot af crashouts, which of course includes HV batteries. If you could communicate with them, there might be some HV battery assemblies on offer.

Speculation: My best guess is that in the US, classic Prius are crashing out of the fleet at a rate between 1/day and 1/week. Hats off to you if you can refine that estimate.

General: about last September, Toyota participated in a news item announcing that they would rebuild HV batteries for a reduced cost. I have still not seen anything official about this from any Toyota source. Maybe someone else has seen?

 

Third that. It should be covered under the emissions warranty. If you can't get a replacement from the dealer, call Torrance post haste.

 

Amazing! No, not that a traction battery with almost 150K miles died, but the quality of the answer and information given by bwilson4web in this thread. What a wonderful service to his fellow Prius owners. I have a new car so presumably won't have this issue for several years, but am interested in learning everything I can about the vehicle, and also deeply appreciate the outstanding helpfulness and quality of most of the people on this site. Thank you, sir!

 

i think a couple of us classic owners didn't go in for that battery sealing thing, resulting in the premature failure of these batteries.

 

From what I understand the extended (150,000) mile warranty in CA is for 2007 and newer cars.

 

You mention in your post if you don't stress battery with your driving it will last longer.
or something to that effect.

This is something we all would like to know so we don't over stress the battery.

The prii does a good job taking care of the battery but is there something we should not do so it will last longer.

Thanks for your insight

 

i wished they installed a starter like the honda hybrids, when i got my accord hybrid the high voltage battery didnt have enough juice so it used the conventional starter.

 

The 2 things that come to mind right away are:

1) Don't continue to drive if you run out of gas.

2) Don't drive extensively with an EV mode modification turned on.

 

And,

3) Use the air conditioner so you don't overheat the battery (it is cooled with cabin air).

 

Bob Wilson All I want to say is THANK YOU for all your "mcguiver" explanations and the photos. I dont have that problem but I am sure that all this great info will help someone across the globe. You were kind to take the time and write all of that. I am new in here and is great to see all this wonderful help from the members in here.

 

To answer the original question, which we have all apparently forgotten, the car will run with a poor battery, as long as it will start the ICE (internal combustion engine). The HV battery is used to start the ICE. The car will get "gutless" as the battery deteriorates further, as it won't be able to use the battery to "boost" the ICE output. But as long as it can start the ICE it will run. It won't pass inspection, of course, as codes will be logged.