1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2002 steering rack shudder

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by bjustin, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. bjustin

    bjustin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    27
    1
    0
    Location:
    seattle
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Hello,

    My prius has developed a violent shudder that would require replacing the steering rack to fix. This would run about $3000.

    I'm looking for advice on how to disconnect the power from my steering rack to make it a manual steering vehicle. I have a shop line up to do the procedure, but they have no experience with it and would need a "kit" or instructions to do so.

    Any ideas much appreciated.

    More details later...
     
  2. tochatihu

    tochatihu Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    8,995
    3,507
    0
    Location:
    Kunming Yunnan China
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Hi new poster, unfortunately your problem is not a new one. Concerning your plan, I believe that that there is just one fuse to remove for the electrical steering assist. Consult your owner's manual if available. Unfortunately I am nowhere near an NHW11 Prius.

    If you go to manual steering in this way, the warning light will stay on indefinitely. As there are few turns lock to lock in this steering system, arm strength will be required at low speeds.

    There may be a way to reduce the $3000. I recall that the complete steering asembly should cost about $1600 new from Toyota, and the R&R hours about 4. Unfortunately I cannot confirm that right now. In other words, consider getting other price quotes. In the near field, I'd be talking to Toyota of Olympia (they're good) and further away, Luscious garage in San Francisco and Art's on Oakland CA. The latter two are idependent shops and might be willing to install an assembly harvested from a salvage Prius. Allegedly, this issue was fixed in the 2003 model year and a donor vehicle that had not had front-end damage could be a suitable candidate.

    Good luck and please keep us posted.
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,123
    15,389
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    I would recommend getting the Toyota Maintenance Manual(s) (RM957U2 Vol. 2) and Electrical Wiring Diagram (EWD493U.) It looks like the EMPS ECU uses pins M1, M2 that feed the DC motor.

    The sketches show a short, ~1 ft. long cable from the motor assembly. It looks as if the car were raised and the driver side tire removed and wheel well liner, it should be easily seen.

    It is very likely that disconnecting the motor will raise a code. But if you measure the DC resistance of the motor, A power resistor (assume 12 VDC) of similar value, possibly a little higher, should fool the ECU into thinking the motor is still connected.

    You've given me a thought ... I wonder to what extent the neutral stability may be a by-product of the EMPS circuit. It is possible the car may seem a little less 'drifty' at speed. Please let us know.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. adric22

    adric22 Ev and Hybrid Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2009
    642
    144
    2
    Location:
    Fort Worth, TX
    Vehicle:
    2018 Chevy Volt
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    I wonder if there are any statistics on this problem, such as what percentage of 2001-2002 models develop the problem. My 2002, the best I can tell, has the original steering rack and so far has not developed the problem. Yet, I am always wondering when it might strike.
     
  5. bjustin

    bjustin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    27
    1
    0
    Location:
    seattle
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks Guys,

    That is all great information.

    There has been a new development: within 5 seconds of starting the car, the warning light comes on and the power steering goes out. The display reads "PS" and there is an "!" Maybe disconnecting the power from the rack is unnecessary at this point?

    We took the car to a shop today to get an inspection to see whether anything out of the ordinary may have been done by the previous shop, or to see any other "red-flags" that may exist.

    I'm hoping to "buy time" with the vehicle as a manual before jumping in to the repair. My concern is that after replacing it, the rack will last less than a year and have to be replaced again.

    Another concern is that another $1000 plus repair is lurking in our future. The shop we took it to, Moss Alley Motors are far from experts on Priuses, but they are BBB accredited and are very honest and up-front. I'm not sure how helpful their inspection will be.

    Brad
     
  6. bjustin

    bjustin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    27
    1
    0
    Location:
    seattle
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The shop called back and said they could put in a used steering rack which they found for $950. The total after labor would be $1273. I need to decide soon whether to do it or not. there is no warranty on the used part.

    I'm tempted to go for it. The mechanic said they only have one used rack on hand and it could go fast. Also, I'm concerned that the price may increase as demand for used steering racks increases.

    I've been dilly dallying with this since December and sometime between then and now the price of the part increased 75% and the dealers total estimate went from $2000 to $3128...before tax. Maybe it's time to make hay while the sun shines.
     
  7. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2005
    27,123
    15,389
    0
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    Prime Plus
    Sounds like a plan. I may be interested in the old part. Send me a PM and I'll see how much I can afford.

    Bob Wilson
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,198
    6,464
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
  9. bjustin

    bjustin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    27
    1
    0
    Location:
    seattle
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    thanks for that Patrick and to all of you for the help. there are a lot of options and bases to cover, and I'm trying to keep my cool through all the confusion.

    I really like the used price, but how do I know if the used part they will put in has the same known weakness as all 01-02 racks?

    I just asked the mechanic what year Prius the used rack is from. He isn't sure but said he would check on it for me. Is there a way for me to verify the "quality" of this used rack?

    If you were in my shoes, would you trust the used part or get a brand new one? I could really use some advice. do you think the savings outweighs the potential risks of a used part? What are the

    your advice is much appreciated.

    Brad
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    18,198
    6,464
    0
    Location:
    Green Valley, AZ
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Hi Brad,

    Considering that the salvage part of unknown quality costs 50% of new, if I were you and planned to keep the car I would buy new.
     
  11. bjustin

    bjustin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    27
    1
    0
    Location:
    seattle
    Vehicle:
    2002 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Thanks for all your responses in the past! We called Toyota corporate and they "escalated the case" and we were assigned a case manager. He called back and said he wished they could help with the repair cost but that we are "way past the extended warranty."

    We are currently pursuing buying our own used rack and having a shop put it in. I'm running VIN checks on the used parts to see if the vehicle they came from were ever in a reck. The total cost for parts and labor will be under $1000. I know it's not ideal but we are on a budget so we will go for this crapshoot approach and hope for the best!