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2003 Prius Brake/ABS Issues

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by Reptor1900, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Hello all, I've been researching all this for a while now but have come to conclusion I need assistance.
    I acquired a 2003 Prius about a month ago and I have been trying to get it restored to good working order. It had been sitting half a year or so, with the then owners running it once or twice a week to make sure nothing had gone wrong with it. I test drove it and everything appeared to be operational. The ABS light was lit and was told it was a wheel speed sensor code that they had checked at the dealership. Decided to go for it and clean it up, I started it up again there and got it home. Everything went smoothly for the hour drive back to base, parked and went in to store all the documents before looking harder into the car.
    While I was looking at cleaning everything I stuck my head in the truck and realized there was a dampness on the carpet. I started ripping into it and found the spare tire was almost completely submerged in standing water. I quickly punched the drain plugs and started looking for other standing water, it was also in the battery tray area also and then looking around for the plug in there.
    I was told the car needed a jump sometimes in very cold weather and I just expected that the 12v battery was a weak.
    I went to start the Prius again and found myself hearing a noise that I would later come to find out was coming from the ABS ECU behind the glove box, and greeted with every warning light on the dash being lit. ABS, BRAKE, Red triangle, and check engine.
    I tried to figure it out myself and have read every thread on here with people with similar issues. I found a few ABS fuses blown, even changed out the 12v Battery in it with no luck. I got the codes from the jumper method. They are 15, 51, 52, 56, and 64. From what I could find on a few of the codes, it is not getting proper voltage at either the ABS ECU or the linear solenoid. Even with fully charging the new battery with an external charger.
    I got the leak under control, turns out they were using the small spoiler on the trunk to slam the trunk closed for a while and it rains up in the Northwest a ton. The spoiler had lifted up where the clips in the front are and had been just letting water strait into the trunk.
    I had checked all the fuses and had found ABS 4 fuse blown but replacing it changed nothing. I tried to check the ABS relays but I couldn't removed them with by hands alone and decided it could damage them if I put a tool to it.
    If anyone could help me with some info that would be amazing, thank you.
     
  2. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    You might be a little disoriented here ... there are some ECUs behind the glove box, but not the ABS ECU; that one is next to the steering column, kind of above the driver's right knee.

    Good job, that's helpful. I'm looking them up in my 2001 book, so my page numbers might be a little different from a 2003 book. (Anyway, if you don't have the paper book already, the quickest way for you to get the information will be on techinfo.toyota.com, and the online version might not have matching "page numbers" at all, but you should still easily be able to find the matching sections.)

    Code 15 (pages DI-387 through DI-391) is set if either: with the ignition switch ON, voltage measured at the brake ECU +BS terminal dips below 2.5 V for 1/2 second or longer, OR, with the car moving a few MPH or faster, voltage measured at the brake ECU +BS terminal stays at or below 9 V for 10 seconds or longer.

    Keep in mind that condition (1) has a very low voltage threshold (2.5 V!) and condition (2) is checked with the car in motion, when the DC/DC converter should be online producing 13.8 V irrespective of the battery condition. In other words, it's a stretch to fuss about the 12 V battery for this particular code; it more strongly suggests trouble in wiring, connectors, or fuses on the path from the battery to the ECU +BS terminal. If that terminal is downstream of one of the fuses you found open, that would certainly explain the code. You can see if that's the case in the wiring diagram.

    Code 51 (pages DI-406 through DI-408) is set if either: more than 28 amps flow to the brake pump motor for more than one second, OR, the change in current draw while the motor is on is not as expected, more than 3 times in a row.

    Code 52 (pages DI-409 through DI-415) is set if 5 minutes go by with the system trying to run the pump, without the target pressure being reached.

    Code 56 (pages DI-424 through DI-429) has a longer list of detecting conditions than I want to retype here, but they all have to do with the accumulator low pressure switch being ON (detecting low pressure) at times when the ECU doesn't think it should ... which is not surprising considering the codes 51 and 52.

    Code 64 (page DI-386) is set when you use the brake and, for one second or longer, the readings from the pressure sensors don't match. There are four pressure sensors in the Gen 1 system: one sensing the master cylinder output to the front brakes (you will always produce pressure here just by stepping on the pedal, even if nothing else works), one at the master cylinder output to the rear brakes (which depends on the accumulator pressure and the regulator piston in the master cylinder), and one each sensing the pressure available to the front and rear brake circuits downstream of the linear solenoids. If you haven't got accumulator pressure available, it makes sense that the first sensor would be reading higher than the others. (The diagram is in the New Car Features manual, page 106).

    Based on the collection of codes, my suspicion would fall on your accumulator/pump assembly first. The tests on pages DI-406 through 415 would help you decide if I'm right. A bad pump may even have drawn enough current to open a fuse ... or, something else may have caused the fuse(s) to open, first.

    If that assembly is bad, you can search for a thread by PriusChat member rlin78, who did a DIY replacement a few years ago. The good news in that thread is that it can be done without opening the A/C system, if you're willing to spend enough time at it. (The method in the repair manual is to open up the A/C and get those tubes out of the way for an easier job, but then you have to deal with evacuating and recharging the A/C.)

    -Chap
     
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  3. weasel1g

    weasel1g New Member

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    Any updates on this?
     
  4. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Yes! I got the info from techinfo.toyota com and spent a week trying to troubleshoot it. I gave up and decided to just sell it after trying everything but replace the pump. I went to sort it all back together and get it ready for sale and I just let it run for 30 minutes while putting the trunk back together, and the ABS, Brake lights, and the alarm just went off. Brake booster was working and even drove it around the block and tried some heavy braking with it. Looks like it just came back to life all by it's self.
    I let the 12v battery charge a few times on the wall charger, and taking it out and putting it back in after was all I did in between it working and not. Going to check all the codes again soon. Got a M-vci and got it working so I should be able to sort out any issue it might also have.
    Thanks for the help!
     
  5. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    Welcome. my guess is that the blown fuse set the codes, and it took a bit to reset them & clear them. If you can, pull the car into a garage and dry out the trunk. Mildew is nasty stuff and once it rears it's stinky head, it's impossible to get rid of. Also, I'm thinking you'll need to check the buss bars in the HV battery for corrosion. NEW Hybrid Battery Bus Bars (36 pcs) Toyota Prius Gen 1 2001-2003 - Reflex Concepts LLC Or you can just clean yours.
     
  6. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    I thought it was the fuse, but I manually cleared the codes, when I did the lights and alarm stopped for about 4 seconds and then the codes 52, and 56 returned. Since they left on their own they have no returned. I looked again with the M-vci and they have no codes logged on the ABS system.

    Thanks for the info Brian. I got the truck sealed, I removed all the carpet and trying to dry it out. Sadly I do not have a garage to dry it out. I'll be looking today at the buss bar, as I have 2 new codes, p3000 and p3030. I looked at the voltages on the battery. Block 18 was showing 0v so my only guess is the probe have failed. I think block 19 and 20? These one were reporting that they were at 20v.
     
  7. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    If worse comes to worst: there's sprouted up this weird woo fad of using chlorine dioxide as a health supplement, which I would like no part of, thankyouverymuch, but in one of its more conventional commercial uses as a mold and odor destroyer, it will amaze you with its effectiveness in cases you would think were impossible.

    You can search for "nosguard" and find little packets sold by Starbrite. The packets contain a small amount of sodium chlorite mixed into a clay powder, inside a porous paper pouch, inside a foil bag. To use it, you tear and remove the foil bag, keeping the paper pouch intact, close it up inside the car (you will be outside the car). Humidity in the air will react with the chlorite in the clay and give off ClO₂ gas at a modest rate. After several hours, open up and air out the car. It will smell like nothing bad ever happened.

    You want to kind of position the pouch amidships in the car and away from upholstery, etc. You could hang it in a mesh bag off a string tied between headrests, or something. If you let it sit right on or near upholstery or trim, you could get a bleached spot.

    ClO₂ is a different animal than straight chlorine. The smell is similar enough you'll recognize it if you take a whiff near the pouch, but it won't linger much. Once you're done and you air out the car, it won't smell like a swimming pool.

    -Chap
     
  8. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Well sad news. I was out doing some errands and after leaving the Interstate as I was asending the off ramp. My dadh lit up with the Brake, ABS, and sounded the alarm again. No idea why it happened or how. Going to go get the codes and start throwing time at trying to figure out why it sorted it's self out and then returned after hardly an hour of driving today.
     
  9. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Update.
    Got the codes back. New codes.
    P1346 and P3009. I'll see what I can find. Thought I would let y'all know what is going on.
     

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  10. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Well, ok, the P3030 means one of the skinny voltage sense wires in the battery is damaged (perhaps broken off at the terminal, thanks to corrosion). P3000 is just the HV ECU saying "hey, look at the Battery ECU codes."

    P3009 is a high-voltage leak, which doesn't necessarily have to be in the battery; it could also be in the power cable/"frame wire" leading forward to the inverter, or in the inverter, or in the transaxle. But it could also be right in the battery. You can search the forum for an easy way to test, by checking for the P3009 to reappear, first in key ON only, then in READY but not in gear, then READY and in D or R. The result gives you a good idea where the leak really is.

    In the case of a P3009, the best news would be if it is in the battery, because fixing that might cost you nothing besides some elbow grease and a little boric acid. And you'd have to get in there anyway to deal with the broken voltage sense wire. And you may stand a pretty good chance that's where the problem is, given the sense wire problem already suggesting you've got a corrosion issue in there.

    The ABS codes are essentially the same ones you had, suggesting the accumulator pump isn't up to the job. That didn't really sort itself out, and it won't sort itself out; it just didn't recur for a while severely enough to set the warnings again, and then it did.

    The P1346 is a curious one, a discrepancy between what the crank position sensor and the cam position sensor are saying. One possible cause is the timing chain actually having jumped a tooth. This might be the first I've heard of it on PriusChat. How many miles are on the car?

    The manual takes the position that if you check and that isn't what happened, the ECM needs replacement. Me, I might throw in some other easy checks like cleaning the crank and cam position sensor connectors and testing the signals, before just throwing a part at it. I'd probably try those things even before actually checking the chain position, since that entails getting the cowl and valve cover off.

    To just check the position of the timing chain, you don't need more than the valve cover off; you can look for two nearby specially-colored links in the chain to be lined right up at the marked teeth on the cam sprockets, when the crank pulley is at the 0° timing mark. The trick is, those links won't be in the expected position every time the crank is in that position; you just have to keep turning the crank two revolutions at a time until you get back to the spot where the two colored links are visible up above the two cam sprockets, and then you check that the two stamped marks on the sprockets are lined right up with them.

    I think somewhere I once did the math on how many times maximum you might need to spin the crank around before the marks are back in position. It only depends on the tooth count of the sprockets and the link count of the chain, but I don't have those notes around now. It's easy to search the web for images of the sprockets close up enough to count the teeth, but finding images of the chain that show it well enough to count the links is harder.

    Several of your codes show little 'snowflake' icons to the left. That means they have additional 'freeze-frame' data with details of what was going on at the moment the code was set, which you can retrieve by clicking the snowflake. That would be useful.

    -Chap
     
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  11. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Well Finally getting back from work and getting ready to put some time into the Prius.

    It is a 2003 with 260k miles on it. The poor door had a crack in the water channel for the truck, and the spoiler on the rear had been pulled off from the clips so there was gallons amount of standing water. Sadly this was not disclosed to me anon purchases else I would have declined the car. I've since sealed all the leaks, and have been drying to dry it out.

    I got a used hydro booster pump assembly. Should be ripping into it tomorrow. I haven't had day light hours to work on it much. I couldn't find much info on P1346, just that it is a constant, and freeze framed code. I would think that it would run horrible if the timing lost top dead center. I'll see how hard it is to dig to the timing chain and see if the timing is still correct. I'm not sure if the Cam/Crank Shaft positions censors failing could throw this code or not.
    Found out that in 09 the battery was replaced by Toyota. But couldn't find anything else about it.
    I ripped out all the paneling around the trunk, and found corrosion around every bolt that wasn't Ones that bolted down the battery, looks like the humidity has got to the battery. Will be taking it out and looking into either cleaning the bus bar or replacing the tabs/probes.
    Here is the freeze frame data for the two new codes. Note the negative amperage on the HV battery. Otherwise not a ton of data present. I'll be testing the p3009 tomorrow morning by clearing the code and doing the steps to see if it's in the battery or the Transaxle.

    Thanks again.
     

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  12. Brian in Tucson

    Brian in Tucson Active Member

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    The varied voltages on block 17, 18, and 19 would have me a bit freaked out. You really do need to get the cover off and look at the buss bars and condition of those cells. 20 volts? I didn't know that was possible. 0 volts would indicate a corroded buss bar or just a totally dead block.

    Good luck, you can play wack a mole with the battery blocks, or ditch the poor car, or get a new battery (we mostly recommend new from Toyota.) But for the price of a new battery, you would have a pretty good start on a newer Prius or other car. Or you could come get my 03, which was born and maintained in Sunny, Dry Tucson.

    Sounds like the trunk has been damp for quite a while.
     
  13. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    ... or a problem (corrosion, break) with the voltage sense harness.
     
  14. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Thanks Brian for the ideas. Your offer sounds temping, I live up in the Pacific Northwest and it feels like it never stops raining. I read that the 0v and 20v are a common sign of the voltage sense probe has failed on block 18. I think it's to do about how the computer measures the voltage between blocks. I am going to yank out the battery once I get the braked sorted out.

    I got the old brake booster unbolted but ran out of day light before figuring out what way I wanted to get it out, either down below having to take of the passenger side drive shaft, or up and out with braking the AC lines. I've been debating how I wanted to go with it.

    While I was digging around I noticed this and took a picture to share. My guess this might be my reason I'm getting a P1346 code.
     

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  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I could be talked into that....

    -Chap
     
  16. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Update.
    I got the booster in and running. Bled the brakes with Techstream. Took a good 4 hours or so including tearing down and reassembly.
    Removing the brake reservoir and associated hoses, plug, and plus a few bolts, gives you perfect access to unplug the pump assembly.
    I removed all the connections for the main wire harness, and unbolted the plastic housing it rests in to pull it off to the side. I then removed the aluminum heat shield over the headers. I took the single fitting going from the top of the assembly to the rest of the brake system. Lifting the car up and removing the wheel and shroud, I got access to the 4 bolts that hold the assembly onto the lower plate. With those removed I was able to lift the old assembly up and out wiggling it pass the headers. It was tight between the valve cover and the AC lines, but squeezing the 2 sides of the remaining bracket and apply light pressure to the AC line, the assembly slipped right out.
    Then it was as simply taking the bracket off the used replacement and doing in reverse of before. Went all in easy.

    Sadly can't test to see if they are working 100% till Tuesday when the new crankshaft position sensor comes in. Also all the battery codes have vanished. but seeing I have a few days I might as well see about getting into the HV battery and see what is going on in there.

    Thanks again for all the help!
     
    #16 Reptor1900, Feb 10, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
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  17. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    Brakes are working great. The job was far simpler then I thought after all. After installing the new Crankshaft Position Sensor. I cleared the P1346 code. It came back as a pending code right away. Looks like the sensor being broken in half wasn't the cause. I'm going to look at the Camshaft Position Sensor to see if it's good.
    I started listening to the engine run for a while and noticed it doesn't sounds like my friends 2002. There is a light ticking in the engine, I would have to get a probe and hunt around to be sure but it sounds like it's in the top end over by Cylinder 1. Now I'm wondering if the timing chain tensioner are failing or have become stuck. Looks like i'll have to look into the checking the chain visually.
    I have yet to get the chance to take out the battery and clean everything/ replace the probe on block 18.
     
  18. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    I thought I would give every one an update.
    I spent more time finding leaks in the trunk, and finally was able to seal the trunk fully in. After that. I decided of the two codes I had still. p3030 and p1346. I would throw myself into the batter, finding and acquiring high voltage gloves, I yanked out the battery and replaced the voltage probe harness, and the Hybrid Battery ECU, and one of the plugs was showing some massive damage. Cleaned all the other copper plates and slapped it all back together.
    Now with the battery sorted out my battle with the p1346 started. Still trying to sort it out.
     
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  19. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    I thought the P1346 was VVT Sensor/Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Range/Performance Problem (Bank 1).

    The manual indicates the Trouble Areas as:
    • Mechanical system (Jumping teeth of timing belt, belt stretched)
    • ECM
    Maybe you just need to replace the timing belt?

    If you don't have a copy of the 2003 repair manual, it is probably worth getting, if you intend to continue maintaining this car.
     
  20. Reptor1900

    Reptor1900 Junior Member

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    As far as I can tell the P1346 is the ECM sees a dependency between the Crank and Cam/VVT-i position sensors.
    I started by replacing the Crank position and Cam Position sensors. Then the VVT-i solenoid, also called VVT-i oil control valve. Still nothing.
    Last night I started up techtream and started probing though data to see if I can find something other then tearing down to see if the timing jumped. I found that there was an active test for the VVT-i (bank 1) system and attempted to test it. Even though all the parameters of the test where satisfied it would not test. I'm unable to shut off the VVT-i system from techstream, it simply is locked in an On position. I installed the old solenoid and same thing, no testing. So I went to my father who owns a 2002 and tested his. Sure as shit, his tested fine.
    Went back to my 2003 and started digging around with Techstream and found that the ECM has no VIN and has stuff missing that should be there. Also won't allow me to input a VIN as it says it is not the one stored. I'm thinking the ECM is damaged, I can do the tear down and test the timing. But the service sheet in the book just says check timing, if correct replace ECM.
    After everything I've done to this car this might be the hardest repair so far as my M-vci can't reprogram ECU.