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2006 traction battery in a 04?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by ZFORCE, Feb 17, 2015.

  1. ZFORCE

    ZFORCE Junior Member

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    Hello all
    My Prius has started throwing the code P0A80, it all happened after I went away for work and left the car in storage for 15 days, during that time I left the OBD scanner plugged in and it drained the 12v battery, a quick jump start and it was back up and running.

    While I was backing it out of the driveway the warning triangle came on and the MFD said "problem" the scanner showed the P0A80 code. I thought that was odd, but maybe related to the flat 12v battery and self discharge of the traction battery so I reset the code, it drove normally to the shops. When I restarted it and started to drive it threw the same code again.

    I then installed techstream on my laptop to try and get some more in depth answers but was having trouble getting that running on Windows 8. So overnight I disconnected the 12v battery and would try again in the morning.

    I got techstream working and connected it up to the car, connected the 12v and started it. While I was configuring techstream to graph the pack voltages I noticed something odd, the engine was being loaded and unloaded in 2 second cycles, and at the same time the inverter was whining as it does this. I was thinking maybe it's doing some sort of charge and measure cycle since the ECU's have lost any pack data due to the power loss of the 12v battery?

    It ran like this for 20 mins or so and the engine stopped, techstream showed pretty normal cell voltages, I couldn't see any wild differences between the cells.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]



    I then took it for a long drive at high speed for about an hour or so and it didn't miss a beat, nor did it code again for the next few days. When I had to store the car again for another trip I made sure I stored it with a high SOC.

    [​IMG]


    I just came back from work after 15 days away and it coded again.

    [​IMG]


    I managed to capture the cycling I was talking about earlier.

    [​IMG]

    I also had an interesting observation while driving it in that state, it felt like it was on cruise control, when backing off the accelerator it just kept the speed the same, I had to actively apply the brakes to slow the vehicle, oh and one more odd thing happened, I heard a clunk from the rear as the HV relay opened and the car basically wouldn't accelerate over 20km/h.


    Anyway, back to my original question. At what point did Toyota change the traction battery between models? am I safe to all Gen II packs are the same so a 2009 pack would work in an 04?

    I called one wrecker and he has one from a 06, but he wants $1320 for it, seems expensive for something that old.
     
    #1 ZFORCE, Feb 17, 2015
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  2. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes. You should try to get the newest used traction battery that you can. Another possibility is to buy a traction battery from a 3G Prius and move the 28 modules over to your traction battery case.
     
    #2 Patrick Wong, Feb 17, 2015
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  3. ZFORCE

    ZFORCE Junior Member

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    Hi Patrick

    Thanks for the reply. I've been doing some more research and some people have suggested using an RC charger to charge and re balance individual modules. Since the car is only reporting that one module (8) is faulty do you think it is worth a shot trying to cycle that module given that the internal resistance of each module is pretty much the same, or am I doomed to purchasing another pack?
     
    #3 ZFORCE, Feb 17, 2015
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    you can also try the grid charger sold here in the pc shoppe.
     
    #4 bisco, Feb 17, 2015
  5. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    What conditions is the car being parked in? Out in that hot sun? The hybrid battery is sensitive to heat, so keeping it cool is important. There are enough reports here of faster battery demise in hot climates.

    There are several long threads on PC with the results of battery module cycling using small chargers. Some good results, some less than good. It is time consuming so if you need the car daily it may not work for you. Some have gotten away with replacing a single cell, but others did not. Full battery balancing is needed.

    Highway driving, mostly level and without much speed variation, stresses the battery the least, so one can do that with a failing module. Hills and varying speed bring out the weak battery faults.
     
    #5 nh7o, Feb 17, 2015
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  6. ZFORCE

    ZFORCE Junior Member

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    Hi nh70.

    It's stored in a uninsulated tin shed, so it's not in direct sun but it is hot. Well it has been 10 years, it's been a good run. Calling around wreckers no one has one locally. Toyota Australia have one locally in stock for $3842, they seem to offer a $500 discount if you surrender your old battery at sale time. So maybe it's worth just buying new?

    Hybrid Battery Recycling Program
     
    #6 ZFORCE, Feb 17, 2015
  7. Britprius

    Britprius Senior Member

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    Looking at the figures from Techstream it would be well worth trying a balance charge on modules 15 and 16 (block 8) although it is likely only one of the modules is low on charge. Continuing driving the car risks fatally damaging any out of balance module.
    The reasoning behind this is that at no point on the supplied graph did the voltage fall below 15 volts for block 8, and 14.4 volts would be it's nominal level. It also did not rapidly peak to a high voltage when being charged.

    After pulling the safety link, and removing the top cover you can charge modules individually without removing or even disconnecting them.
    After balance charging just those modules you will need to discharge them to the same average voltage as the rest of the modules.

    If this clears the problem and it does not return all is well at little cost just time. If the same problem returns replace the lower voltage module of the two measured under some load.
    It would be best to re-balance the whole battery if and when time permits.

    John Britprius)
     
    #7 Britprius, Feb 18, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2015
  8. strawbrad

    strawbrad http://minnesotahybridbatteries.com

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    I really doubt you need a new battery pack. Your graph of max and min voltages could be used as an example of a perfect battery. Then after your car coded pair eight shows low voltage even though in the graphs screen shot pair three was the minimum voltage pair. Modules just do not behave this way, perfect one day and down 1.3 volts shortly after.

    I suspect you battery ECU is going out. It could also be a bad voltage sensing wire. A bad 12 volt battery is also a possibility.

    If this was my car I would open up the battery pack. The first thing to do after the cover comes off is to remove all the buss bars from one side. High voltage is still present until this is done. Pulling the orange safety plug is not enough to make the pack safe. Then measure the voltages of all the modules. If you find a module 1.3 volts below the others it needs to be replaced. No amount of charging and discharging will recover a module that has fallen that far.

    If the module voltages all read within a few hundredths of a volt that would indicate a bad battery ECU or voltage sensing wires, or a bad 12 volt battery.

    Brad
     
    #8 strawbrad, Feb 19, 2015
  9. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Definitely charge the pack and let it top balance at low amperage.
    Sounds like the pack is simply out of whack. May not need to actually do a replacement.
     
    #9 ericbecky, Feb 20, 2015
  10. 3prongpaul

    3prongpaul Hybrid Shop Owner, worked on 100's of Prius's

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    It really comes down to time vs money.

    If you have the time to open up the pack and try individual module charging and/or grid charge the whole pack, go for it. Just be aware that the "fix" may or may not last long term.
     
    #10 3prongpaul, Feb 21, 2015
  11. jeff652

    jeff652 Senior Member

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    Sitting unused for a couple weeks is often what triggers a 'failure' in a battery that is getting weaker due to age. It sounds like your battery is an ideal candidate for our grid charger systems. Our products allow in car charging & re-balancing of the hybrid battery cells. This eliminates the effects of cell imbalance and self discharge that regularly cause battery failures due to the vehicle being parked & unused for extended periods of time. When paired with the discharge product we also offer, the combined system allows for unlimited easy battery refurbishments at your own home for the remaining life of the vehicle.
     
    #11 jeff652, Feb 21, 2015
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