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2008 T4 now has 235,000 miles, speculating either Hybrid System or Battery Pack tiring???

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Christopher Lynch, Jan 28, 2017.

  1. Christopher Lynch

    Christopher Lynch Junior Member

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    Hi Prius Fans,

    Having driven my T4 to 235,000 miles with virtually no problems (serviced by Toyota every 10,000, f/offside wheel bearing @ 86 and 226,000, and drive belt @ 218,000) I'm somewhat suspicious I now have a 'Hybrid' problem. What do I mean? Well let me explain.

    Over recent months I've noticed the engine 'reving-on' as I'm descending the odd steep hill etc. I mentioned this to Toyota, and they suggested a preliminary diagnostic test, which resulted in 100% OK. Consequently, I continued driving and just ignored this issue.

    As those in the UK (South East) will know, we've experienced a fairly lengthy 'cold snap' recently, and often all auxiliary systems are employed i.e. De-mister, heater, A/C etc. Friday last I began my day @ 06:30 2 degrees, pushed the 'start button' and went directly to 'Climate Control' to boost warm air setting. The engine soon fired-up but struggled to run smoothly, sounded as though (those of us old enough to recall a motor cycle/car running on 1/3 cylinders) it was running on 3 may be 2 cylinders? Eventually the car engine stalled and both the 'engine malfunction light' and the 'RED WARNING TRIANGLE' symbols appeared. At first I kinda thought I was sunk, and no driving my beloved Prius today etc. However, sitting back and trying to take a calm and thoughtful approach to the situation I chose to simply wait a few minutes and completely restart etc. Got the car going, engine reving a lot, warning lights on but needed to get to work.

    Later I got Toyota to reset error lights and endeavour to diagnose. They suggested it was the 'Hybrid System'? They would need the car back for a longer examination etc. I guess to determine whether the problem is the Hybrid Battery Pack or the Hybrid Regeneration System, or both perhaps?

    Having briefly checked the raft of relevant 'Forum Info' out there, it would appear that with Gen 2 once the car goes past 8 years (not sure high/low mileage is so important?) Hybrid Battery problems can occur.

    Anyone out there experienced similar symptoms? Also, worst scenario (which realistically I should consider) can you (obviously UK based) kindly advise best deal/service re: Hybrid Battery renewal etc. I'm sure if I call on my Toyota Service Centre it will be tres expensive (£1500/2000?). There appear to be so called 'Specialists' out there offering a complete Hybrid Battery replacement service for less than £500.

    I guessI should let Toyota diagnose first (1-2 hours £95-190) to hopefully determine the components required etc.

    Regards


    Chris
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    actually, you can have problems anytime, and you have done really well. there is not cut off time/mileage that makes things change. the older it gets, the more likely it's age will show.

    to try and help you, we would need to know what diagnostic trouble codes they have retrieved.

    as far as independent shops are concerned, 500 pounds will be you a rebuilt battery pack, and that will only be as good as the warranty (parts and labor) and the reliability of the shoppe backing it up.
     
  3. Christopher Lynch

    Christopher Lynch Junior Member

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    Thanks.

    Yes, I guessed that a deal to replace/renew the Hybrid Battery Pack at less than £500 was going to be based upon some version of refurbished/re-engineered components etc. However, as I hopefully will manage to have saved enough £'s to afford a much younger Gen 3/4 (2014 >) low mileage Prius this year. I'm cool with a reliable quality solution for the next couple years etc.

    I better see whether I can manipulate the 'trouble codes' from Toyota, if I decide to let them do the thorough diagnosis. Trouble is, will they provide me with those all important codes? I somehow doubt it. Now I see that you're based @ Boston, US. So, you are not likely to be able to guide me regarding reliable, good value specialists based in England, preferably the South East?

    Regards


    Chris
     
  4. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Hi Chris,

    The thing to remember, and this does not change the world over, is that no-one can truly re-manufacture a battery pack. Re-manufacuring implies replacing old worn out parts with new parts. This is because no-one but Toyota can buy the genuine GreenEarth battery modules. So far, the jury is out on Chinese look-a-like knock offs–these are proving to be very unreliable. The genuine GreenEarth modules are manufactured exclusively for Toyota.

    So your best option is to try a buy a used battery from a dismantler, preferably from a car with a wrecked front end and very recently wrecked. You can use a battery pack from any model Gen II, III or IV, however, only the Gen II is directly drop in. With the other two generations, it will require the opening both packs and swapping every module over. If you have the ability to DIY that will be the most cost effective, but you could also find someone and pay them to do this, for not more than £50-£100.

    You are correct, us non-UK members cannot really help you find a reliable "rebuilder", but personally, these people are not really worth the time and aggravation dealing with.

    The best options are DIY or get a new HV battery from Toyota.
     
  5. Moving Right Along

    Moving Right Along Senior Member

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    Agree with this. While a battery problem is certainly possible, it's important to check to see what the actual problem is before jumping ahead too far.
     
  6. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Most Gen 4 in the US are a different battery chemistry Lithium Ion. I do not know what other differences there are for Gen 4. I have not heard of anyone putting a Gen 4 battery into an older Prius.
     
  7. dolj

    dolj Senior Member

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    Gen 4 cells in a Gen 2 | PriusChat

    While you have to make sure it was a NiMH pack and not a Li-ion, it is doable as per the above thread. I did forget that some Gen 4's were using Li-ion, so thanks for pointing that out.
     
    #7 dolj, Jan 29, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2017
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  8. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I thought you meant a whole pack swap. I apparently misread your original posting.

    In the US, only Trim 2 has NiMH. The 2 ECO, 3, 3 Touring, 4 Touring all have Lithium Ion. There may be a mix of batteries in Canada too.
    Perhaps the Lithium Ion ones would work on the Plugin Prius?
     
  9. Christopher Lynch

    Christopher Lynch Junior Member

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    Thanks Guy's for all your kind advice.

    I should add that when the car initially 'failed' there was another symbol (outline of a car incorporating the exclamation ! symbol) displayed faintly in the top left corner of the 'Display Screen'. I'm sure that you are aware this indicates a 'Hybrid System' warning and not specifically a 'Battery Pack' warning.

    However, although I have an engineering background I don't profess to know a great deal about the 'Hybrid System' and still think I should rely on Toyota to diagnose. Hopefully the latter will result in some good, accurate analysis, offering a sound judgement of what needs repair/replacement.

    At this stage, casting my mind back to that somewhat fateful Friday morning, I distinctly recall how particularly cold it became late Thursday evening, so cold I had to turn the heating up in my house almost to maximum. Ironically, when I went out to the car on Friday morning there was no frost, but it was still a miserably damp cold. I can only speculate that the 'Hybrid System' was effected by the low temperature reached throughout Thursday night/Friday morning.

    I've continued to use the car, even though the warning lights came back on during Friday early pm. Since then, fortunately with plenty of daytime driving (minimal use of Aux) I have managed to restore a state of equilibrium, and all the warning lights have disappeared; long may it remain that way.

    Obviously I still need to get this matter fully checked-out.

    Thanks again to all of you, and I wish you many quiet, safe, and enjoyable miles in your Toyota Hybrids.


    Regards


    CJL
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    please keep us posted, all the best!(y)
     
  11. blondiestar

    blondiestar Junior Member

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    My 2008 with 240,000 miles has started to have very similar issues. I got the triangle with the car outline and ! On the screen then it went away. I've been advised to invest in a scan tool to get the codes. Have you thought about doing that?

    Saving money and time at the dealer can make a big difference to your wallet. Let us know what codes you or Toyota pulls and you can get a better idea as to what the possible solutions are.

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  12. Kevin_Denver

    Kevin_Denver Active Member

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    Get your codes read. Can't speak for the UK, but in the US, most auto parts stores will do it for free. This will give the basic OBD codes to help diagnose the problem. Just copy them down and then google them. The Prius is very good at reporting what is wrong with it.

    However there are more specific Toyota ECU codes, that are even better. These can either be read by a dealer/specialized Toyota mechanic for a fee, or you can get a Mini Vci Techstream cable for a Windows laptop for about $15-20 that can capture these codes (google these terms for additional information).

    Even if the car doesn't have any warning lights on, so long as the battery remains connected, the ECUs will have saved the existing codes (until they are cleared or the 12V battery is disconnected).
     
  13. Kimt

    Kimt New Member

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    was wondering if CJ Lynch has ever posted the results of his 2008 Prius Hybrid or battery problems ?
    I own a 2006 Prius w/ 273,000 miles and he described exactly what my car has done , except now all the lights have come back on and it shows nothing from electric motor going into battery and only one purple line in battery picture. I made it home with only the gas engine running , very slow take off then got up 45 mph top speed and didn’t push for more because the engine was revving . This car has been a great car I am the original owner and have only had a couple of minor problems that we fixed at home ! Would love to get it back on the road without dealing with our local dealer they are awful !!! ( And over priced )
    Thanks , Kimt
     
  14. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Welcome! Where in Florida are you? Todd at Tampa Hybrids is a trusted expert here. He sometimes posts here with username @TampaPrius.com He services and sells used hybrids, mainly Prius.