1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

2010 Prius; Whole-vehicle shudder, P0304, seems unrelated

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by TheLandYacht, Mar 9, 2021.

  1. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    TLDR; Took it in for a Cyl4 Misfire & they tell me I need a transmission?

    So...I bought this car back in September, and for most of that time I've had I can only describe as a "whole-vehicle shudder" that occurs very specifically at or around 1500rpm (give or take 100rpm or so), at pretty much any speed (from 15mph up to highway speed). Nobody I've talked to locally (nearest T= dealership/specialist is nearly 100miles away) has any idea.

    In the last couple of weeks, I've begun throwing a P0304 intermittently about every 80-160 miles (so once every day or two, since I commute 80miles round-trip each day for work)...I clear it & watch to see how long it takes to come back. It's for THIS symptom that I actually took it in.

    I use a Bluetooth dongle & TorquePro to display gauges, and that's one of the ones I watch.

    I took it to a local grease-monkey repair shop (that's actually the name of their shop).

    He said he swapped plug & coil to different cylinders, and the symptom does NOT follow either one, and the engine holds/passes a compression test.

    Next I got a series of text messages (below) which are...confusing, to say the least, as one would seem to have nothing to do with the other if only because of the time-difference in symptoms.

    A little input would be helpful.

    QUOTE:
    Hi Scott, I didn't want to wake you since this is your night time! Glad we spent the time to diagnose the car... you may or may not need plugs and a coil but that's not the cause of the misfire. In your hybrid, the transmission has an electric stator in it that seems to be malfunctioning and causing power surges that is impacting the electrical system. We recommend taking it to Toyota, as we're not setup for hybrid transmission work. It's most likely going to need a transmission.
     
  2. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    5,893
    3,161
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    Why would they say you need a transmission for an misfire?
    It's possible an injector is malfuntioning. Check all the wiring.

    I doubt there is anything wrong with the transmission. Always "possible", but doubt it.

    You should call around and find someone who knows how to work on the Prius.
    There are other users here from Texas, I'm certain they can lead you to the right place.
     
  3. ozmatt

    ozmatt Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2015
    571
    234
    0
    Location:
    australia
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    One
  4. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    7,673
    6,492
    0
    Location:
    Redneck Riviera (Gulf South)
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    #4 ETC(SS), Mar 9, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2021
  5. Pdaddy

    Pdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    153
    49
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I had a shudder and it was a fouled intake air manifold which the dealer diagnosed. I replaced for $218 plus tax. In spite of all the shuddering and a few weeks of driving I only had one misfire code the whole time.

    SM-G960U ?
     
  6. Pdaddy

    Pdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    153
    49
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    I also cleaned the egr cooler last summer.

    SM-G960U ?
     
  7. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,662
    38,207
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    @TheLandYacht :

    Kinda afraid to ask, but anyhow: how many miles, and have you heard of Exhaust Gas Recirculation?
     
  8. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Oh, I personally participated in a whole-circuit EGR & Intake cleaning less than 5k miles ago. At that time, the EGR cooler was COMPLETELY (100%) fouled, not a bit of anything getting through it. Took 30 minutes at the local carwash with the pressure-wand to unclog it. Did similar with the intake manifold & the EGR valve itself (as well as all associated piping).

    Came home looking like "black-face" pretty much head-to-toe (from all the particulate), which wasn't pleasant.

    Also, this is not the "engine shudder" or "engine shake" that many have experienced, usually at start-up (myself included, scared the crap out of me, I've got a thread about it already)...or at least it doesn't feel like it. It's a "whole vehicle" shudder that does not feel like it's coming from the engine compartment specifically, it feels pretty much exactly the same at any speed from 15(ish) to 70(ish)mph, happens as mentioned above right around 1500rpm...which just happens to be the RPMs needed to "maintain" a steady speed on level ground.

    _______________________________________________________________

    OK. On to further details from the tech.

    Went to pick-up the car & got a chance to chat with him, he said (hope I get this right)...
    One of the two stators in teh transmission is sending surges of AC current through the system that's playing hell with your electrical system.

    He couldn't explain why it would specifically be targeting Cylinder4, but said "it can cause all kinds of wonky effects (his words), like taking out the radio, causing the Multi-display to fail, or even ignition-related stuff like this"

    That's pretty much a direct quote. He went on to say "we try not to work on hybrids, beyond straight-engine-stuff" & suggested I find a Pri specialist...but suggested my tranny is shot.
     
  9. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    140k(ish), and yeah...done a whole-circuit cleaning less than 5k miles ago.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  10. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Also, he confirmed that he did swap the plug & coil to other cylinder(s) to see if the symptom followed...it apparently stayed with Cyl4.

    Associated questions:

    1. He was using his SnapOn OBD tool to watch the misfires as we drove, and I watched 'em counting up as we drove...is there a threshold over which it "pops" the CEL? x-misfire/seconds (or revolutions, or miles, or whatever)?

    2. Is there a way to monitor that from TorquePro with the little bluetooth ODB reader?
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,270
    15,068
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    You may find it useful to look through the misfire diagnosis article that makes up most of the back of this Toyota Tech issue.

    As for the stator making surges causing "all kinds of wonky effects", it's certainly not the first time I've seen somebody who doesn't want to work on a system, and doesn't want to learn about the system, make up some technobabble story about it that he hopes will sound knowledgeable, rather than just saying "you know, I don't want to work on these and I'm not interested in learning about them".
     
    Pdaddy likes this.
  12. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Dead link.

    And yeah, that's not the first time I've gotten that KIND of answer (try to techno-babble your way out of it) when someone doesn't wanna work on something...and it's not always specifically limited to vehicles.
     
  13. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,270
    15,068
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    Dead. Dead, you say. And here I have just viewed it ... again.

    Must be in my browser cache. If I try it from an incognito window ... it's dead.

    Well ... here, then.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    So after reading that, of which I understood maybe 20% if I'm lucky...how/where do I get my hands on that software and/or the connection to a laptop to use it?
     
  15. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2008
    23,270
    15,068
    0
    Location:
    Indiana, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    IV
    There are lots of threads here that will come up in a search for techstream.

    A lot of the information it was talking about seemed to be in the 'monitor details' area, which various other scan tools can also retrieve. Just the other day I was posting about getting the EGR monitor test results via techstream, and somebody else posted a shot of their some-other-brand scantool showing the same data, only showing the pressures in psi rather than kPa.
     
    TheLandYacht likes this.
  16. Pdaddy

    Pdaddy Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2013
    153
    49
    0
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Did you figure it out?? From my experience if your egr was clogged then the air intake from the egr tube will be completely fouled as well which is what caused my consistent shudder. Take the air intake manifold off and try cleaning as well or replace. It's relatively easy. ( easier than the egr!)

    SM-G960U ?
     
  17. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I (participated in) cleared out the entire path from the EGR Valve all the way up through the Intake...took 'em all up to the car wash & blasted 'em clean.

    If my air intake got completely clogged in less than 5000 miles, I've got bigger problems anyway.

    EDIT:

    At this point, I'm just spit-ballin' for ideas anyway, I have an appointment a week from Monday to have the dealership see if they can't figure out what the hell is going on.
     
    Pdaddy likes this.
  18. ASRDogman

    ASRDogman Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2018
    5,893
    3,161
    0
    Location:
    Florida
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    You did do the 4 small holes under the larger ones???
    Did you clean the cooler out? Is the egr valve moving freely? Is it stuck partial open?

     
  19. TheLandYacht

    TheLandYacht Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    132
    69
    0
    Location:
    Kingsland, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    Can't answer to the EGR Valve itself, that was cleaned by the mechanic.

    The cooler was 100% clogged, took a half hour & about $10 worth of quarters to get it blowing freely.

    And yeah, I blew all the holes, even the small (3/4" Diameter?) hole on one end where the EGR circuit goes in. Honestly, besides getting the cooler clean, that's where I got most of my black-face from. It was not pleasant!
     
    ASRDogman likes this.
  20. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    54,662
    38,207
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Did you clean the 1/4” dia Exhaust Gas Recirculation passages in the intake manifold, one per port?
     
    ASRDogman likes this.